The Connection Between Science, Soul and Creativity 

[00:00:00] Kellee: Hello? Hello, everybody out there in Podcast Land. How are we doing today? Well, this is Kellee Wynne of the Made Remarkable Podcast. And we have another amazing interview for you. That's what we're all about here. Interviewing remarkable people, doing remarkable things, living remarkable lives, having discussions with you about how you can lift your life to that next level of feeling remarkable.

[00:00:32] Kellee: Being remarkable, doing remarkable because you are made remarkable. And I'm hoping that you're tuning in every week to get that little boost of inspiration and maybe plant a seed on your next move of how you can take your life and flip it around and write the script yourself. You know, it's all about living life by design and not by default.

[00:00:58] Kellee: And so I'm hoping [00:01:00] today's interview is gonna inspire you a bit. We have Jess Keating. She is a friend of mine. I made friends with her through a coaching program we signed up for, and the program was kind of me, but our friendship turned out to be a lot of fun. What's really cool about Jess is she is a multi-passionate, creative, and I know that many of you can relate to being multi-passionate.

[00:01:24] Kellee: She is a scientist and a spiritual teacher. She works to blend that science back research with spiritual explorations of creativity. So putting that together, she has a really interesting take on how we can heal ourselves and do remarkable things. But she's also a bestselling author, artist, and a creative money mentors, so I think that she's gonna have.

[00:01:53] Kellee: Amazing insights for you, some great takeaways. Today. We have a pretty lively discussion [00:02:00] and I hope that you stick around to listen to the whole thing and then give me some feedback, pop into my Instagram account and say hi. Jump in my dms and ask me some questions about this. You can find me at Kellee Wynne Studios.

[00:02:15] Kellee: I'd love it if you would share the podcast. We wanna be able to spread this far and wide so that everybody knows that they're made remarkable, so that everyone finds that bit of inspiration to keep carrying them through the week. So tag me, tag the podcast at Made Remarkable. Share this and pop into my dms and tell me what you thought and maybe give me some suggestions of who you'd like to interview.

[00:02:40] Kellee: Millions of remarkable people out there. I just need to be connected with them and know who to talk to next. All right. Well in the meantime, let's get right in with this interview introducing Jess Keating. Okay, well, sorry audience, but Jess and I have already started this conversation, so we [00:03:00] better hit record now and just go for it.

[00:03:02] Kellee: This is Jess Keating and we made friends on Instagram because we are very much like-minded about how we see business and money and spirituality and just a fun gift of gab that we have together. So Jess, would you please introduce yourself and I mean, what you do and how you got here? 

[00:03:23] Jess: Absolutely. Um, I was born on, no, I'm just kidding. Um, my name is Jess Keating. I am a, I'm gonna do the fancy version. Okay. Okay. So like, here we go. I am a bestselling author, I am a scientist, and I am a creative money mindset mentor. Who helps visionary creatives and entrepreneur entrepreneurs do all of the inside work to release their deepest blocks to creating, sharing, selling, and scaling the work of their heart.

[00:03:53] Jess: And the way I like to do that is to help them do all of this beautiful, well-rounded science slash spirituality [00:04:00] work to help them build a generative living business that is truly reflective of their self-expression. So it feels one of a kind, it feels very much connected to who they are on like a soul or creative level.

[00:04:12] Jess: And I like to do it in a way that also helps them make a ton of money in a way that feels perfect for them. 

[00:04:19] Kellee: By the way, Jess, you are a one of 

[00:04:21] Jess: a kind. Oh, thank you. You are as well, . 

[00:04:26] Kellee: Cause I love, I just, I love your whole entire business model because it really aligns exactly with where my heart is right now with the way the industry works, the way people are working, the way we want to create.

[00:04:39] Kellee: But we wanna create something that's really special and unique and a lot we've been talking about these coaches and the, and the business push industry of do it this, follow this exact formula. Yeah. And then turn around and teach this exact formula. And it's just kind of, as we've said, it's all bullshit and we've gotta [00:05:00] be able to come up with our own way and our own.

[00:05:04] Kellee: And so you give that opportunity to people and, and my favorite thing is mixing the science and spirituality cuz I love both and I don't think that that I could find my spiritual side of myself without the more analytical science side of myself. Cause I'm a big, huge doubter. Like I wanna Yes, that's okay though, everything.

[00:05:24] Kellee: But then I realize that there's so much mad magic around us. So like I like to be able to tap into it. And you have all of that packaged in one and you started as an amazing creative person writing books. So you've got that whole arc of actual experience and actual knowledge that you could actually implement in other people's lives.

[00:05:44] Kellee: And I'm emphasizing this cause we've laughed a lot about how many. Have never built a business, and yet they're teaching people how to build a business. Makes no sense. , 

[00:05:54] Jess: everybody has skills, right? It's just, you need to, I think, allow yourself the freedom [00:06:00] to own what yours are. So if you're ever, if you're listening to this and you're feeling like, oh, I should do this though because like, this is what sells or whatever, turn that voice off.

[00:06:07] Jess: Ignore that you have this, you do have skills. You do have the ability to create something incredible with your, like, creative intuition in your voice and all that. But I, I think it's a good, um, premise to begin with because I know a lot of the people listening are probably tangentially related to, to a lot of those voices that are telling them like, here's the way to do things.

[00:06:27] Jess: And I'll tell you one of the best things that I've ever done for my life, just in general to create like a richer life, but also business is like consistently remind myself that what works across the board doesn't matter. It's what I want and it's what works for me. . And I'll tell you the hard part, it's one thing to say that, right?

[00:06:47] Jess: Like cross-stitch down on a freaking pillow when like you're done . It's one thing to say it I wish, right? Like put it in the back behind me or something. But actually implementing that, that is where the work of people like me comes in because it is [00:07:00] going to push against every single like inner trauma, inner block, all of those buttons that you have holding you back from that self-expression.

[00:07:08] Jess: People always say like, oh, I wanna find myself. Like, you don't have to find yourself. You have to see yourself fully and allow that to be enough. But that like, and I don't even wanna say that as though like it's an easy thing, it's a no. But 

[00:07:22] Kellee: that's why I renamed everything to made remarkable. Yes. Yeah. I mean like I really, that aha moment that I had this year that really released a lot of my old demons of, of like, I am okay as who I am.

[00:07:35] Kellee: Let's lean into that and I want everyone else to know that you are made remarkable. Literally, you don't have to become anything. There's no like big, massive transformation made on 

[00:07:47] Jess: a better, it's all gonna be these iterative growth. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And I'm, I'm glad you mentioned made remarkable. 

[00:07:56] Kellee: Yeah. As you were saying, like as we were saying before, I [00:08:00] finally was like, okay, we better just hit record cause it's planting the seed and growing the tree and then the apple will come.

[00:08:08] Kellee: But it's not like you can just. Magically have the apple be there. Like that's just not, no, you can't only how, if you really wanna grow something, otherwise you're gonna get one or two apples and not a whole tree full of 

[00:08:18] Jess: apples. Like Yeah, I know. It's such a, or you would just somebody else's apple. Yeah.

[00:08:23] Jess: Otherwise you're just no. Or so that's the 

[00:08:25] Kellee: thing. Yeah, I know. . There you go. Let's go all the way. The ethics of the business 

[00:08:32] Jess: that I like to do with my people, I call them money wakers, like my flagship um, program is creative money awakening. And I think about like creative mastery, money healing and spiritual awakening, like that's where that comes from.

[00:08:44] Jess: But one of the things that I really like to emphasize is I prefer a worldview of business and creativity that works with nature. And I know like, that shouldn't sound radical, but I know like in the world that we're in like the idea of like [00:09:00] how do we sort of transplant natural function and natural growth and generative processes onto a business.

[00:09:07] Jess: I know it can actually sound like quite woo or whatever, but in my mind the creative process is seen its best in nature, right? Like that idea. And one of the things like, I'm glad you mentioned the Apple thing, cause it sparked this like thought for me we, we have this like almost obsession with creating ease, right?

[00:09:28] Jess: Let it be easy. And I have no problem with that phrase because I think that we do often make things harder than they need to be. A hundred percent. And that's our stress response is happening. That's our self sabotage, that's our traumas and all those little inner wounds and blocks that I help people deal with.

[00:09:43] Jess: We do make things harder. But I also wanna say as a creative. Our generative living force is naturally going to be a sort of friction, right? Because we are not just taking someone else's apple and being like, here's an apple. We are trying to [00:10:00] plant something and grow something. And growth takes not only time, but when it comes to like creative ideas and like business and stuff, it's going to take that like rubbing together of different ideas to hopefully create a spark that will in us be like, oh, here's how I wanna do, like set up my business strategy, or here's the kind of offer I wanna take.

[00:10:21] Jess: But I really have to caution people, especially people who I'm assuming if they're listening, they identify as like creative souls to not take the feeling of tension or that feeling of like discomfort as a bad sign. And it's not just because like, oh, growth is uncomfortable, it's because like you, my friend, are a freaking creative.

[00:10:42] Jess: And that means that by necessity, Things need to be like kind of frictiony and rubbing, rubbing against each other so you can find those next steps for you. So like, I don't mind, let it be easy, but I also hope that people don't interpret that as something wrong with themselves [00:11:00] if they're listening and thinking like, you know what?

[00:11:01] Jess: Thus far it's been really hard because sometimes it is. And I think a lot of the problematic issues can come in when we have messaging like you. Oh, if you're just aligned, it will be so easy. If you're, if you're staying in with your integrity, it'll be so easy. If you stay with whatever you're naturally good at doing, it'll be easy and like it will be, well, those are all the lines that people are using or whatever 

[00:11:27] Kellee: makes you feel like, well, if it's not going right, then I must have done something wrong.

[00:11:32] Kellee: Well, let's just be honest. It's not easy if we can just start admitting it. Not easy, it's not easy. We can do something with ease, but that's not the same as easy. Yeah. And so it's like really, like how many years did it take for us to get here? 

[00:11:48] Jess: Couple decades, God, like Oh, easily. Easily. 

[00:11:51] Kellee: A couple of decades.

[00:11:51] Kellee: So I'm not saying many 

[00:11:53] Jess: careers have come 

[00:11:54] Kellee: here, many. And so if you think about it, like if you've just started [00:12:00] this creative journey and you're just learning how to make art now the time is probably not right to be selling. Take some time to actually 

[00:12:07] Jess: match and that's okay. And that's, it's okay. It's okay.

[00:12:10] Kellee: Yeah. Like fine. You can always lean into what you're most talented with, what you're most, most excited about. Like you said, it's, it's not a one size fits all, but I think that's kind of why I've like created this whole 100 ways to make money as an artist without selling 

[00:12:26] Jess: your art so that we, without selling your art.

[00:12:27] Jess: Yeah. So many 

[00:12:29] Kellee: options. But yeah, it takes , it takes a lot of time. People. 

[00:12:34] Jess: It does. And that's not, and that's 

[00:12:36] Kellee: part of the fun sometimes, isn't it? Don't you find it fun? Like, or For me it's 

[00:12:41] Jess: problem solving. I think of it as pro, I think of it as problem solving. And I think of it for me, like my, everything about, like the work that I do, it's very exploratory.

[00:12:51] Jess: Like I actually think of myself like with the machete, like Indiana Jones style, like going through the creative like realms and stuff and kind of tapping into [00:13:00] those things, pulling them out and trying to make something out of what seems to be nothing. And I mean, I'm fortunate in that I have a really grounded scientific background, so I can understand like the neurological and physical, like nervous system components to creativity, but I also have like a shamanic and spiritual background to help kind of ground me in both of those realms.

[00:13:24] Jess: But it also took years to help them kind of work together. Mm-hmm. , if that makes like, it's, it's nothing that you can knowledge your way outta, right? Like, I'm highly knowledgeable, but that's not, that's not it. It's the experience of walking that path and be able to recognize, okay. Usually at this point in the creative process, I wanna like, jump out a window, you know, like when I was writing novels, I don't write as many novels now, but like, I would have by, like, you could, you could set a clock by my like, creative process the minute I hit 30,000 words.

[00:13:57] Jess: Finally the world made sense again. [00:14:00] Whereas like up until that point, I doubted everything. Every second of my life. It was like I'm doing everything wrong, like this is garbage and this is this. And my husband would be like, what's your word count? And I'd be like, 25,000. He is like, so 5,000 more to go , right?

[00:14:15] Jess: Like, and it's like that for any type of creative work you do. It's not always gonna be the same, but you can definitely know yourself and recognize like, oh, here's where I'm gonna start probably feeling imposter syndrome. Or Here's where I'm gonna start going on Instagram and feeling like resentful towards Kelly and her business because it's so much better than mine.

[00:14:33] Jess: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Like all of these things that we do inside our heads, right? And my work, I aim to help people partner with those feelings and use them because they are like really helpful allies. Like I hate when I hear people say like, oh, crush your inner critic, or like, whatever. And it's like, no, your inner critic is a protector.

[00:14:54] Jess: And it is doing what it has done for years or evolutionary millions. Millions of [00:15:00] millions of years. Million. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Keeping you safe. Exactly. And like it is not the problem. It like you're, you're self sabotaging, you know, behaviors or procrastination or anything like that, that is not a problem.

[00:15:13] Jess: That means that you function in a healthy way. It's all the, the like, successes just change, right? And your body will at every turn try to get you away from any sort of change, better or worse. So our job then, then becomes partnering with ourselves, with our spirit, with our bodies. And like, that's where I get really, really nerdy because like, it's such a beautiful, right?

[00:15:36] Jess: Like, cuz you can't, you can't work in one realm alone. And I remember, like I had, I think we talked about this the last time actually, Kelly, I remember I had like a weird moment where I felt like there was no place for me. Because I was so deeply entrenched in both realms, if that makes sense. This is because it's right.

[00:15:55] Jess: This dual, this living in 

[00:15:57] Kellee: duality is really a big struggle for a lot of people. I [00:16:00] know. It's a struggle. It's me. It's like trying to figure out how you live in both spaces that created Yeah, that real, 

[00:16:07] Jess: the real world, the 3D world. Yeah. With like five cars, , 

[00:16:11] Kellee: right? How, how do you balance like this physical need to actually need money and also the desire to create and is it holier?

[00:16:19] Kellee: Is it lighten, isn't it, isn't it so wrong to wanna make 

[00:16:23] Jess: money from something that we're creative of like people really? Oh God, no. That is something I deal with that a lot. I deal with that a lot with my women, especially like, cuz we, what's the first thing we say when somebody wants more? Like, oh, be thankful for what you have though.

[00:16:37] Jess: Mm-hmm. . And I mean, you can definitely be thankful. I, what I tend to notice though is that in most women in particular, especially like the caregivers and like stuff like that, They have weaponized gratitude against themselves. Yes. And I would like to point, this is actually a really good like little moment to kind of benchmark this or bookmark this part because people always, you know, they come to me cuz they wanna [00:17:00] build like a living business, right?

[00:17:01] Jess: That feels beautiful and wonderful and lush and all that stuff. But then they're like, oh, but who am I to want more? And it's like, look to nature. You're not gonna see a tree be like, you know what, I'm done growing. Like Right. They will stop growing if they need to. If their resources aren't right, they have to go within, they pull back.

[00:17:18] Jess: That's fine. But like ambition, especially as women is not a dirty word. Yeah. No one wants to be a dead tree. No, right? Like, it's like it is okay to look at your life and be like, I love everything about my life. And yet I also want so much more. And we have been taught as women in particular, like that is more, is a dirty word, right?

[00:17:39] Jess: Like it's too ambitious, it's too bold. Like, oh, well it's gonna be impo. Where are you gonna have to sacrifice? And it's like, there will always be like, you know, push and pull and stuff, but balance is meant to be found in movement. You're never gonna be like, I'm done. Like, here's my life in balance.

[00:17:55] Jess: Balance always is doing this, right? You're on that little tightrope thing. So it's [00:18:00] okay to keep reaching for more. And I, I know that there's somebody listening right now who I'm hoping is at least allowing themselves maybe 1% more to want something. Because again, like we can go out with the biggest dreams in the world if we don't ever fully.

[00:18:17] Jess: Um, allow our relationship with our goals or our ambitions to feel safe to us or to feel like we're not jerks for wanting that stuff. We will self sabotage it. Like, remember what I was saying about like, your brain will just like detour you away because if you see like subconsciously think that, oh, people who have a million dollars, they're all wealthy jerks.

[00:18:40] Jess: You will not wanna become what you despise, right? Like you can want it all you want, but you will never allow yourself the safety to create that like it's right and so deep. But we've, 

[00:18:50] Kellee: we've been. Probably like hurt enough of that growing up. But I think even the young Gen Z generation is even more inundated of, of [00:19:00] eat the rich, you know?

[00:19:02] Kellee: Oh yeah. 

[00:19:02] Jess: Big time. So we have the idea 

[00:19:03] Kellee: that anyone who has money must be awful and wanting more means you're ungrateful and that you can't just be happy with what you have. And there's a this fine balance of knowing that gratitude does bring joy when we look at our life and we feel wholly satisfied and complete with what we have and still wanting more.

[00:19:22] Kellee: That means that we're in a place where we're actually gonna thrive. And, and you're right, women especially, but even men really struggle with that idea of wanting deserving and asking for more. But how do you build a business if you're not 

[00:19:37] Jess: willing to allow abundance? Well, that, and that's the push pull, right?

[00:19:41] Jess: That is we have this deep desire as creative people, we are here to, we know what we're here for. And whether or not you can put words on it doesn't matter. You know, if you wake up and you're like, oh my gosh, there's just some, there's some mountaintop drawing my attention. We know, and yet you have your creative soul or spirit saying like, [00:20:00] let's do this.

[00:20:01] Jess: But your body and your sensibilities and your thoughts are being like, oh, but who are you to want this? Who are you to do this? You're not an expert of this. You can't do all of this crap. Like those, those mechanisms, like you've got the magnet of the goal and then your own self, the magnet of like, no, no.

[00:20:16] Jess: Stay the same. Stay the same. Don't be too loud, don't be too big, don't be too soft. Don't be too whatever, because that's too much. Or alternatively, you're not enough. 

[00:20:25] Kellee: Can, can I tell you what my quick, my final snap was last year when I finally had an aha? Who am I to be so selfish to keep it to myself?

[00:20:37] Kellee: Yeah. When other people, when other people can benefit by me putting out the gifts that have been given to me, it's medicine. Nate has given desire to do something. It might be because it's more than just me. It's bigger, and we are all connected. Yeah. And the more we're connected and the more we share and the more we show up and the more, who am I not to [00:21:00] Yeah.

[00:21:00] Kellee: Do this that, no, it's true. That totally flipped at me because I kept having this resistance that why would I do coaching? Why would I wanna do 

[00:21:07] Jess: this? Is it, I remember you saying something like that. Yeah. There's like, 

[00:21:10] Kellee: it's a, again, to be a really dirty world out there, and it's like, I don't wanna be in any sort of realm where I'm not in full integrity.

[00:21:19] Kellee: And I mean that, not in a buzzword way, like 

[00:21:22] Jess: No, I know what you mean. Literally wanna be 

[00:21:24] Kellee: transparent, open, helpful, and, and really like nurturing and bringing people in and giving them the opportunity and the possibility, but also doing it in a way that it's sustainable and that I can grow and that I can provide for my family.

[00:21:40] Kellee: I can provide for my, now I have a team of people who are helping me and I'm providing for them, and I'm like, oh, wait a minute. Abundance. Money is not pie. The more I have doesn't mean the less you have. And once all that's right of this came together, like yes, there is something about your mindset that makes all the [00:22:00] difference in the world on how we succeed.

[00:22:02] Kellee: But it doesn't mean that you're less than something because you haven't 

[00:22:06] Jess: succeeded yet. Of course not. Of course not. And that's the thing that, like I have, I toyed with the idea cuz it's so hard to know, like what do I call myself? And in some regard, it's totally just a procrast branding thing, right? You, you're just kind of wasting time.

[00:22:20] Jess: But I also know that when I use the phrase like money mindset mentor for example, because what I like to do is all of the five stages, like the creating, sharing, selling, scaling, and receiving from creative work mm-hmm. , that's all related to money in some way. It's just like my creative lens of that.

[00:22:37] Jess: Right. But what I don't like about that term, similar to we've, our conversation about the word manifesting is because it places it in this one lane. And that to me, it's like, Your mindset, I would be more inclined to say like, your experience impacts what you will move on to create. But even then, I want people like, you can get [00:23:00] everything right.

[00:23:01] Jess: And it doesn't mean that it is just going to be bestowed upon you because guess what, like life happens sometimes, you know, and this is not to, I, I hate the idea of somebody thinking like, oh, I did all the stuff, like I did the, the affirmations, the buzzwords, all these things that like are not actually that effective.

[00:23:18] Jess: If you don't have that type of brain , say it retinal, like that's one of the annoying sciencey things that like, here I am, like a thorn in somebody's butt. But like, it's not gonna work for you if it's not gonna work for you. Right? But people then turn it on themselves. We take this idea of radical responsibility, right?

[00:23:33] Jess: I'm sure you like you've heard that buzzing. And on one hand, yes, we do need to be pulled out of a victim state of mind. Absolutely. Like we have ownership and agency, but we almost take radical responsibilities so far that we forget that we are actively co-creating. And I know you can go as woo for that as you want.

[00:23:53] Jess: You can say co-creating with the universe if that's your spiritual belief. Or you can also just say like, co-creating with reality, [00:24:00] because sometimes you're gonna stub your toe, right? And it's not because you, you know, you've gotta block about whatever moving forward. It's cuz the, somebody moved the table, right?

[00:24:09] Jess: Like it's not all your fault , but you need to find that balance between radical responsibility and allowing yourself to like weave energies that want to happen too. Like, I have an entire module about this. We call it the Weaver work because I think there's what I wanna happen. But one of the things that helped me most in my business was when I started tuning into like, okay, what wants to happen right now?

[00:24:33] Jess: And you know, I know as creatives we can do that. That's beautiful. You know, we can tap into like what, what project is like on my shoulder constantly right now. That's a sign, you know, and you can say, oh, it's coming from my brain. Well, who cares? Like, however you envision these things, what wants to happen?

[00:24:50] Jess: I think it's equal play in that equation. And then you can take a much lighter view of building your business. You know, like I help people [00:25:00] kind of tap into the spirit of their business, for lack of a better term. And you can take that to mean like woo stuff. Or you can take that to mean like just psychologically, if my business were an entity that I was working with, how would it feel about me right now?

[00:25:14] Jess: You know, like, what questions would it have? Would it feel welcome? Would it feel pressured? You know, and all of these things, they're psychological tools that allow you to step out of like your situated point of view and like kind of see the forest for the trees again. 

[00:25:29] Kellee: I mean, that's. Probably what everyone's listening right now needs is to be able to take a step back a little bit and see the 

[00:25:37] Jess: bit of, it's hard though.

[00:25:39] Jess: It's hard. It's, 

[00:25:40] Kellee: I've been so stuck in the weeds so much and like there's always this, you know, devil and angel and pulling at me . But when you, when you finally get to that point where you can say, okay, I've been here enough times to know this is 

[00:25:54] Jess: part of the path. Yes. This is how, that's just it. It's not an obstacle evolv, 

[00:25:59] Kellee: it's [00:26:00] not, it's part of the path.

[00:26:01] Kellee: And as long as I can see consistent growth, and it doesn't have to be massive growth. Yeah. Be microscopic growth. And I'm not just talking about monetary 

[00:26:10] Jess: growth. No. It could be inner growth. Inner growth, your realizations, your awareness. That is growth. One of the things that I really like to, like, we harp on this a lot in cma, um, which is information is support.

[00:26:22] Jess: And you can look at that as like, support from the universe or you can look at that as like, Knowledge and wisdom support. So if I do something and I learn like it just goes wrong, like belly up failure, awful idea. Mm-hmm. , if I learn something from that though, that is supportive information for me. So I actually have no problem saying to myself like, everything is actually trying to help me.

[00:26:44] Jess: And I don't mean like it has an entity that's expressing on me, but I have no problem being like, yeah, that, like I had a really bad injury last year, I remember we were talking about, but like, I broke my jaw and that objectively sucked. I could not talk, I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, all of [00:27:00] these things.

[00:27:01] Jess: But if you put it on the, the, the perspective of like, okay. What am I getting from this though that I wouldn't otherwise? Well, I'll tell you, I learned really freaking quickly how much I like to communicate , you know, like, and how that's important to my wellbeing. Like I pretty much spiraled, understandably so.

[00:27:18] Jess: Yeah. But it's one of those things, it's not me saying, oh, everything happens for a reason. I don't believe that something's just happened. The universe is chaotic and that's okay. Yes. I think it's more about like, what am I going to do with the thing that is happen? Because right now have a choice. There you go.

[00:27:33] Jess: That's what's tangible instead of Yeah, exactly. Everything. What can I do? What can I do with it? I mean 

[00:27:39] Kellee: like even, even, I think well see for the listeners, Jess and I met because we both signed up for a coaching program, , um, that turned out to not deliver exactly what it was promising and yeah, even though we invested a lot of money, I think we walked away from it instead of feeling bitter, resentful, and demanding our money back [00:28:00] or whatever.

[00:28:00] Kellee: You know, some people, oh God, no. Yeah. That way I know that there were people in there that found it incredibly valuable. Maybe a lot of people who did not find it, A lot of val, a lot of value in it. I personally, what I took away from it was a better self-awareness 

[00:28:13] Jess: of myself. Yeah. Well it's, that's the thing.

[00:28:16] Jess: Information is support. It is invaluable to know what is not for you. Right. And it is invaluable to know, okay, within my own integrity, I sure as hell won't be showing up like X, Y, Z Right. Or within my integrity for my business or my structure or whatever. Mm-hmm. . However, I wanna grow this generative. , here are my requirements.

[00:28:34] Jess: Here's what's going in my business garden. Yes. Right, exactly. Like a friend of mine, Steph, Pfizer, Coleman, I'm sure you probably know Steph, we talk about this a lot. She's an artist as well, and she, I think she gave me the term or we were talking about this term of like a business garden and like what goes in that you get to pick, you get to pick everything.

[00:28:52] Jess: And sometimes those really crappy experiences, like we've all had them. Yes, we've all bought the thing, we're right, and then you get in there. [00:29:00] Yeah. But it's just, you know, you, you learn discernment, right? You learn the buzzwords, you learn the times. I, I try to help people tap into like, , are you investing in a thing because like it is going to help you understand more of yourself, for example?

[00:29:14] Jess: Or is it because that person has something that you think you need that like a fomo e situation, right? Like those are two different things and it does like, it's just like walking that creative path. It takes experience to recognize like, oh, yep, looking back, you know, maybe I only bought it to find what wasn't for me and it has to be okay.

[00:29:33] Jess: Or to meet 

[00:29:34] Kellee: somebody like Jess Keating and 

[00:29:36] Jess: then there you go, right? Like, I would've paid that money to, to have this like partnership, right? This like buddy relationship. So yeah, it's all 

[00:29:45] Kellee: in the wash. I love that. Like really kind of like reframing what's happening. Yeah. Now this doesn't mean that we. Allow 

[00:29:53] Jess: us to feel what we're gonna do.

[00:29:55] Jess: No, never gaslight yourself. Right. But we can. Relighting is awful. 

[00:29:58] Kellee: Yeah. Gaslight. Don't even [00:30:00] gaslight yourself. If you feel sad, allow yourself to feel sad. Yeah. If you're disappointed, allow yourself to be disappointed. There were so many years that I felt so disappointed by my art career. Yeah. But even in that struggle, I didn't quit and I just kept saying, okay, what can I do?

[00:30:14] Kellee: How can I, how can I shift gears again? How can I pivot again? Because I knew I wanted it bad enough. I was willing to wait out all of the things I needed to learn to bring me to where I am now. 

[00:30:26] Jess: And, and that it's, it's a lot of dis discomfort. It 

[00:30:28] Kellee: doesn't end because even last year I'm moving into this year, switching the name of the podcast, realigning myself.

[00:30:36] Kellee: Yes. Big stuff where I wanted to go. Um, and just getting more clarity and I still know that that clarity's gonna keep unfolding. Mm-hmm. , I know that, that the name of the podcast of what it was is still very relevant to who I am, but how I wanna be able to share with other people, you know, how they can make a remarkable life around a business, around their life really.[00:31:00] 

[00:31:00] Kellee: Yeah. Is why I've like made this huge shift. I wanted to just go back a little bit about, you're still writing, I know you've still been recently published. You have books that are, I mean, like for a long time I was collecting children's books, but you do have some science children's books that are really I do.

[00:31:17] Kellee: Cool. I love that. What else have you written? 

[00:31:21] Jess: I've written pretty much a little bit of everything honestly, and it really, looking back I can see that I was trying to do the thing where I could like find my thing. Do you know what I mean? And now I know now I can fully embrace, and I kind of alluded to this before, where it was like, okay, am I over here?

[00:31:41] Jess: Am I over here? The minute I recognized that my ability to traverse all of those fields and realms is a skillset. Like not everybody can do that. Not everybody has the background to do that. Not everybody has the context to do that. The minute I realized that, that's when pretty much everything kind of [00:32:00] clicked into place and I was like, oh, I'm the person who can play in all these lanes.

[00:32:04] Jess: You know, people have like their lane. My lane is how all of the lanes. Like the spiritual lane, the creative soul stuff, the body, the science, the mission stuff, building a business and all of that. But with writing, I did not even realize that what I would do is I would write in one category or one genre, and then I would, as like, I, I, I learned things very quickly.

[00:32:27] Jess: I'm not gonna say I master them, but I learned them to the point that I can keep doing them again and again. Right. And it's very consistent work and that's lovely. And then I would move on. So in my writing career, I have written picture books, non-fiction, picture books, novels. Um, I have illustrated a set of graphic novels cuz I was like, I wanted, that was when I was like quietly in the closet about being like an artist.

[00:32:50] Jess: And then one day, like, it just tipped me, I was like, you have to stop hiding this. And like, I, I got that out there. I have tried to work for every genre or age [00:33:00] category that I can find. And then what happened was, Very similar to when I woke up like 10, 15 years ago. I pretty much on a dime decided I need to be like a creative professionally.

[00:33:12] Jess: Like I knew I wanted to be a writer. I knew I wanted to do stuff like this. I was wrapping up my like graduate degree. I was gonna be a professor, like I was gonna be a science prof. And I love every step of it. I don't regret a single thing because again, this is, this is an edge, right? But I woke up one day and it was like, I sat up in bed and I was like, I think I wanna write books.

[00:33:31] Jess: And I'd always like, I'd always been a reader. And of course like you have the conversation with parents, like, yeah, I'm gonna give up this like 80 K a year like, you know, business or whatever it being like a prof or something to try to be a full-time creative. And that's how I got into that. But then fast forward X amount of years, you know, I've kind of, I feel like I've done so much within that industry.

[00:33:55] Jess: That I knew that something else was calling me. Right. That next step down that [00:34:00] path. And that's when people had always said to me like, you know, you have been kind of coaching and mentoring on the sly for years. Do you know what I mean? Like I was just kind of that person that people would come to and we would talk about like raising my hand, right?

[00:34:13] Jess: Yeah. Like, 

[00:34:13] Kellee: like that's always been my role. It's 

[00:34:16] Jess: so funny how it's an epiphany for us and everybody's like, oh yeah, that's, you didn't know that. She's like, yeah, right. So that's what happened again. And I woke up and I was like, I feel like I want to do some, like I felt like my skin was like breaking apart.

[00:34:30] Jess: Like I had, I should also premise this with, I had a near death experience that prompted that kind of shift where like I thought I was toast and then when I was no longer toast, it was kind of that like everything kind of rearranges in your brain when that happens. For sure. Like, I dunno if it's a fever or what it is, but when that happens, like your throat looks a bit different.

[00:34:51] Jess: And I knew like, okay, I think it's falling time to take. Everything, meaning the science work, the nature stuff that I weave into, the [00:35:00] work that I do, the, the creativity, the writing, the business building, all of that stuff, and bring that all together. And rather than saying like, oh, here's my little lane, which again, not to like negate the power of having a little lane like that is really powerful too.

[00:35:15] Jess: But for me, it was really hard to embrace my lane is how these lanes fit together. Mm-hmm. and how you can use your, like you can work with your body, you can work with your creative spirit. You can work with like money healing and all of these really beautiful things that are normally kind of disparate silos or lanes.

[00:35:33] Jess: You know, like it's, it's pretty rare to have access to all of those little playgrounds, at least I would say, in a strategic way. So you don't feel like you're just like bouncing all over the place. Right. So I took 

[00:35:45] Kellee: six months. Part is really fascinating to me how it, how it all comes. together strategically, I've been kind of working on something where I really wanna be able to help creatives see all those facets.

[00:35:56] Kellee: Mm-hmm. and I had one of my clients that I was [00:36:00] helping last year tell me, she's like at the end of it, the last coaching session, she's like, well, you're like a prism. You've taken light and broken it apart into all these rainbow missiles so I can see all the parts of me and then bring it back together in white light and be able to create something that's wholly unique and herself that's beautiful.

[00:36:21] Kellee: So I am not the light, but I love the 

[00:36:23] Jess: fact that I could be No, but you're holding it up and you're twisting it around. Right. That I could be a prism 

[00:36:28] Kellee: to her own. Multifaceted life, you know, and be able to not just, okay, now I'm gonna teach art, or I'm gonna make art and put it in galleries, or I'm gonna do this to take all those elements of nature and spirituality and, and everything.

[00:36:42] Kellee: And she was able to put it together into something that felt very holistically. Her. And so I see what you're saying and that's a very hard thing to do because I hear this probably the number one thing I hear from creatives over and over. How do I decide what to do? Well, yes, we, there's only so much [00:37:00] energy that we can expend daily.

[00:37:01] Kellee: Yeah. So it's not like I can be a sculptor and a painter, not a professor and a money healer or whatever. Like, and a dj, gotta be Anna, a dj and then also on the side to have my organic garden, whatever. 

[00:37:15] Jess: Um, but outsource some plant healing business. Like I 

[00:37:18] Kellee: get it. We have a bunch of things about how do we bring that together more.

[00:37:22] Kellee: It's like something I'm very passionate about. And I love that you address that. It doesn't have to be all one thing, but there is a way to take all those things and connect them more. Yes. 

[00:37:32] Jess: I would go something 

[00:37:33] Kellee: more beautiful for 

[00:37:35] Jess: ourselves. . It's true. And like I would go so far to say that most people, 99% of people who are feeling like, oh, this is too much.

[00:37:45] Jess: Like these things that keep on coming up within me to like kind of begging to be expressed, those people feeling like this is too much. I would say like 99% of the time it's not. In fact, I'd argue it's probably not enough. Right? Like we have, I would ask people to, you know, listening to [00:38:00] ask themselves like, what rules do I have around what I will and will not express?

[00:38:05] Jess: You know, when the number one thing that I often find in people is like, oh, well I can't do that because it won't make me money, it won't make sense for my brand. It won't make whatever. Like they will look at how they would look from somebody else's point of view and judge the. . Right? And I would argue that the minute you start doing that, you were quite literally emotionally leaving.

[00:38:25] Jess: What makes you special? Like you're putting you, you got your, I used the phrase like, keep your feet under you, right? Yeah. Okay. Because the minute you start your feet, you go like, I'm gonna go and imagine my feet are gonna go under Kelly right now. And imagine, how is she seeing me right now? Oh my God, what if she thinks I'm this?

[00:38:40] Jess: What if she thinks I'm this? Like, no wonder I'm off balance, my feet are under somebody else, right? Mm-hmm. And if there's something like it's going to take time and experience to kind of sniff out, but I'm sure like you've gotten to the place where you can tell the difference between a really good idea, but one that is asking to be expressed.

[00:38:58] Jess: Like, do you know what I mean? Or [00:39:00] like something that keeps coming back again and again, like the, the little ideas on your shoulder. That's how I, when I was writing more, that's how what happened for me is I would hear a voice in my head just repeating a line from a book or something, and there was almost this like smarm of like, are you really gonna keep ignoring me because I'm not going anywhere?

[00:39:17] Jess: Right. And that's kind of what happens with like, my creative business ideas. Like my entire program basically was that, except it was like 10 different voices all saying like, here's how we can all work together. And me being like, hold, hold the hell on. Like, this is too much. Right? Because what happened?

[00:39:34] Jess: But you figured it out. 

[00:39:36] Kellee: Yeah, I did. But it took, 

[00:39:38] Jess: it took time. It took time. And it, I wanna emphasize like it wasn't me force. I could have forced it if that meant, like, I could have been like, put something down that makes. But it was truly a really, beau like my business model is a very, um, nature-based model.

[00:39:55] Jess: It's, but it's literally like a wheel right? Of, you know, time and of [00:40:00] growth. It, I, the way I see my program, And I say, I only say this cuz I want everybody to see their offerings with the same love and reverence that I do. Do you know what I mean? Like Yeah. But that will only happen if you allow it to come through in the way that's right for you.

[00:40:15] Jess: I had to really disregard for, I'll give a really clear example. Um, the idea of a value ladder, right? Like we've all heard of these things like have the little thing and then the bigger thing and the big like, and it can work. I know some people that have them. I've worked with people that have them. I understand what's going on.

[00:40:30] Jess: But for me, I know like there's two things going on. My science brain is going on when I think about the concept of value ladder and it has certain interpretations of that word and then the more spiritual perspective. And I realized for me, in my business and in my integrity, I do not want people energetically or emotionally feeling like they have to defy gravity to reach me.

[00:40:54] Jess: Do you know what I mean? Right. Like that co like, cuz we can feel that happening where it's like, oh God, I'm [00:41:00] investing $2, but now Oh no. Like that to me, like, I'm getting chills cuz I know for me it's wrong and that doesn't mean it's bad, but allowing myself that's not how you wanted to build your Right.

[00:41:10] Jess: But I really struggled with that because I am somebody, again, like the scientist's brain is like, okay, it's always looking for evidence. And I, I wanna say like even if you're not a scientist, your brain is always looking for evidence Yes. Of what works. Absolutely. Right. And like that's, that's human, that's great.

[00:41:26] Jess: But you also have to catch yourself and be like, again, it's in the world of business and especially creative business, you can make anything work. You can, and it's just a case of finding your version of that that doesn't make you feel like crap. That doesn't make you look at your business and be like, what Stranger Nu Skull built this thing.

[00:41:46] Jess: Right? Like you want it to be an expression of you. So the minute I gave myself permission to be like, you know what, no freaking value ladders. I wanna offer value in this way. And I don't even wanna think of it, like value. I wanna think of it as like planting seed. And [00:42:00] if people wanna work with me, it's either gonna be super, super cheap or it's gonna be this program.

[00:42:04] Jess: But it actually took time for me to accept that because I felt that tightness and fear of like, oh, well it's gonna look different from whatever. Like, I don't even know who I'm comparing myself to, but it's there. Right. But it's only kind of knowing yourself and having almost those emblems, you know, like you mentioned, like when you think of your business, it's a certain way.

[00:42:27] Jess: When I think of my business, it's like this kind of wheel that I'm take, like a spiral that I'm taking people through. Having those emblems, it isn't just a really like fun thing to do. It's not like a vision board exercise. Mm-hmm. . It's something that's so deeply connected to you and nobody can change it or take it away.

[00:42:45] Jess: And the minute you start like strategically infusing that, Into how you actually build this thing, like the work you're offering or whatever it that is where I think our conversation of ease can come into play cuz it's not easy, but [00:43:00] it's a hell of a lot easier than pretending that something else is working emotionally.

[00:43:04] Jess: You know what I mean? 

[00:43:05] Kellee: Exactly. I mean society, the business models, ev, the coaching industry tells us this is how we build a business. Yeah. And there's 

[00:43:13] Jess: this one plan, right? And there's a lot of white dudes that have like their stuff sorted out and it's like, if that works for you buddy, like have that. But it makes me feel like puking , 

[00:43:24] Kellee: right?

[00:43:25] Kellee: So, so this is my favorite thing to work with people and even for myself is like, how can you completely reimagine. How business works. We're done with the nine to five cubicle. But why would you come home and build a business that makes you still feel like you're in a nine to five cubicle? Why are you modeling after everything?

[00:43:45] Kellee: Now 

[00:43:46] Jess: here's the thing though, and I wanna point this out. That is like the perfect question because the answer is the immediate, why would I do that? Is because that is homeostasis for me or whoever that is your nervous system being like, this is what [00:44:00] feels safe. So we don't even realize we're building these new boxes, right?

[00:44:04] Jess: So like one of my favorite questions is, how would I do this if I didn't know how anybody else did it? How would I do this if I didn't know what I should be doing, right? Like if I didn't have like a Google thing that I could go and search or pay somebody to do this, what would feel right to. and like you will likely find if that question is new for you, like as a, as a listener right now, you will probably not know where to go with that, right?

[00:44:27] Jess: Like, you're gonna be like, well, I, I don't know. Because here's the thing, as people, especially creatives, like I believe we all have this like innate creator wound, which involves the making up, the stuff, the share, like being visible, all of that stuff, money stuff. It's all related. I truly believe that most of us have not fully got a handle on what we want.

[00:44:48] Jess: And I'm not saying we don't know in there somewhere, but we have a lot of digging and excavating and shedding of like crap, like traumas and blocks and stuff to actually say to ourselves, this is what I [00:45:00] want. And I think that, that, that process, it's funny because I actually believe you could just focus on that process of shedding those parts of yourself.

[00:45:10] Jess: And I really think that if you did that, and just allowed yourself like a pen and a paper you would get to the place in business that you wanna be just by doing that work. Like just by taking that step. Yeah. And that's not to say it's gonna magically appear, but like those inchworm steps. Yeah, that's enough for sure.

[00:45:29] Jess: I am actually 

[00:45:31] Kellee: carefully and deliberately working on a program to help people uncover those blocks and figure out yeah, what their deepest desire is to create something that's uniquely them. But I'm still in the process of pulling it outta myself, 

[00:45:46] Jess: which is, it takes so much time. Like that's li that's my program, right?

[00:45:49] Jess: Like all of these layers and all of these blocks. But like what is beautiful about it is we will have entirely different lenses through which we find these things. Right. And like, and I wanna emphasize [00:46:00] that cuz like, I, I could look at you as a competitor, right? But like, we don't, we understand as creatives, and I'm gonna, I'm, I'll be like a super nerd here.

[00:46:09] Jess: If you have a forest and you plant all of the same tree, right? Like all evergreen trees, that is called a monoculture. And as a rule, monocultures do not survive, right? Because we need biodiversity, right? You know, biodiversity is the thing that saves the planet all the time. And we know that the more species there are in a given ecosystem, the more it's going to thrive.

[00:46:31] Jess: and I want people to be able to understand like if you are looking at, you know, whatever you're doing and thinking, oh, but it looks like, you know, who am I to be a painter? Cuz there's a thousand painters who might to be a, like a coach, right? Like we both kind of help people do creativity, businessy, whatever things.

[00:46:45] Jess: Yeah. But we, we employ it in such a different way. I make you stronger and you make me stronger. And because of that, we make our people stronger, right? That all of those communities kind of coexist. We want, we don't want a monoculture in anything we're doing. [00:47:00] We want this like beautiful life giving diversity.

[00:47:04] Jess: And that is where like conversations of like, oh well this is how it works, so this is how you need to build a funnel. It's like all I hear now, I've trained myself so well, I just hear like monoculture , like, it's gonna die if I do the same thing. That doesn't feel right because normally it's not gonna feel right.

[00:47:18] Jess: You're not a business person, you're a creative and now you're moving into business. And I think that's why I let business advice sucks. Like, but most, I think I have it on my sales page. Like if you are a creative soul, most business advice is going to feel like just warmed up dog crap to you, , because they're focusing on you as a business person.

[00:47:38] Jess: Some white dude guaranteed some white dude wrote a book and was like, here's what's happening in business. And like Mike, they do, they, 

[00:47:43] Kellee: you 

[00:47:43] Jess: know, from Yeah. And it might work for them. That, and if, if you feel, and I also wanna point out if some of that information feels good for you, run with it. Like it's probably the, possibly That feels right.

[00:47:55] Jess: Yeah. But don't force yourself into a box that's like gross to [00:48:00] you because it is going to be something. I guess I just wanna say like, you not only have permission to do what feels best for you in your body and in your soul, but like you are encouraged to do. And just because Joe Blow says like there's how it works.

[00:48:16] Jess: Like he is not speaking to you. You are a creative who is doing business. You are not a business person who's trying to be creative. You can't separate your creativity in that creative soul, but most business advice will feel like crap. And that, that's literally why I exist. That's why I have a program because I recognize like, oh, creatives are different creatives.

[00:48:37] Jess: D totally different. We're, we're, we're. And it's not a dig to like non creatives. The world needs diversity, but like we are motivated. A really good example of this is this idea of service, right? Like if you're in a business, you have to serve people. And like, don't get me wrong, I love helping people. I love serving people, but that is not why I'm in business.

[00:48:57] Jess: I'm in business because my creative soul is like we need to [00:49:00] do. And that's honestly where the conversation ends. Then I have to move ahead and be like, okay, how can I frame this so that people understand what I'm doing? How can I, you know, what do I charge? All of these normal 3D world questions? But this idea of like, oh, I'm serving, I'm not waking up every day and being like, I'm so excited to serve.

[00:49:18] Jess: I'm waking up every day feeling like I can't wait to explore blank. Yeah. And I really believe. I know creatives that feel a sense of shame about that. They're like, oh, well I don't feel like the same way that other business people do. It's like, that's, that's okay. . That's actually probably good as 

[00:49:34] Kellee: we, right.

[00:49:35] Kellee: Like uncovered. Cause a lot of the business practices 

[00:49:38] Jess: are unhealthy or, yeah. Unethical. Unsustainable, 

[00:49:45] Kellee: whatever. However, we wanna like really dive into, you know, and, and there are some really good prominent business coaches out there, very well known from Marie Forlio to, you know what, [00:50:00] whichever one that you're following.

[00:50:01] Kellee: And, and I know a lot of people who've walked away and felt like they learned something from it. Absolutely. So it's not like, it's not good stuff. But one thing that I've kept, I keep coming back to the same thing as you over and over again. They're teaching it from a business point of view. Yeah. 

[00:50:19] Jess: And that's fine.

[00:50:20] Jess: It's, and that's fine. As a creative, where's this space 

[00:50:23] Kellee: for our creative friends? Where are all these people that I've grown up with over the last, yeah. 10 decade of being on Instagram and watched everyone progress. And some people progress faster. Some people are like still stuck, like, oh, oh shit, I built this thing, but now how am I gonna make money with it?

[00:50:42] Kellee: Which is, you know, my favorite person to say, Hey, let's make it more like you. 

[00:50:48] Jess: And that works. For 

[00:50:50] Kellee: you and then let me help you communicate it. Cuz that's really all selling and marketing 

[00:50:54] Jess: is, is, that's all it is. Communicating, messaging and strategy. Messaging and strategy. It's 

[00:50:59] Kellee: just showing [00:51:00] up with 

[00:51:00] Jess: your full on heart and, and 

[00:51:02] Kellee: it's vulnerable and it's scary.

[00:51:04] Kellee: It is. Honestly, that's how you build a beautiful. Business with integrity. And that's my favorite thing to do. And that's why there's all these creatives that are like, I don't know. And then they take these courses and for the majority of them it doesn't work because Yeah, the wake and 

[00:51:20] Jess: then they blame themselves different.

[00:51:21] Jess: Yeah. They think 

[00:51:22] Kellee: it's themselves. And it's not you whoever's listening right now. It's not, it's not you. You've listened to all the good guru advice out there and there's some really good stuff out there. There. I'm a Gary V fan, I admit I got a Gary V bandwagon, but that's because he is not trying to sell me anything except for his soul.

[00:51:39] Jess: Yeah, . 

[00:51:41] Kellee: But, but when it comes to actually implementing it as a creative, it's just a completely different, it's feast. And that's how my brain works is like, okay, so how can I extrapolate from what the professionals, the gurus, the celebrity entrepreneurs have to say and make it [00:52:00] more realistic for us creatives that we come from a, um, probably a more emotional base.

[00:52:06] Kellee: Yep. For all of us, it's science. But emotionally so. Right. And um, yeah, you are a creative so you 

[00:52:13] Jess: understand all I'm absolutely, I have nothing if not a creative, 

[00:52:16] Kellee: I mean I think actually scientists have to be extraordinarily 

[00:52:19] Jess: creative that, well that's the thing, like we talk about these things is though, like it's binary, but science and creativity or spirituality, to me it's the exact same thing.

[00:52:30] Jess: It's different lenses. They're both trying to ask and answer questions. Right. That's all. It's, yeah. They're just trying to do the ask and the answering in different ways and the minute I, again, allowing myself to be like, oh, that's what I am. Like I'm just an explorer here and I, my skillset is being able to take the birds out of you and be like, here's the ecosystem you need to build your ecosystem.

[00:52:48] Jess: Yes. You know, when you mentioned like where is the space for like these creatives who wanna build something with their message and their voice, what we're building it. Yeah. That's the thing. You know, and I think it's really important to, or they remember, 

[00:52:59] Kellee: [00:53:00] dunno know how to use their message and their voice and they Exactly.

[00:53:02] Kellee: Started building it. Yeah, but it's like, really? Where's the fun adventure? Put the puzzle together. Like you have this brilliant idea, and I know you've read Elizabeth Gilbert at all. Yes, I love magic and I love how she talks about the muse that comes, plants the idea. And if you don't take it and run with it, that is gonna go somewhere else.

[00:53:21] Kellee: But 

[00:53:21] Jess: I've seen it happen to me, , I've seen, 

[00:53:24] Kellee: and I'm like, wait, didn't didn't, oh 

[00:53:27] Jess: dang. The best selling book. And you're like, wow, okay. Got it. Yeah, , 

[00:53:31] Kellee: I have that idea too. But you know what? There's nothing new under the sun. But when something comes to you and you have this spark of an idea, I have this crazy, crazy idea for marketing.

[00:53:42] Kellee: My course that I just put out an art course. I have this crazy idea for like, how can I make this bigger and more fun? I've never seen anyone do this before, but I'm going in anyway. And that's what I want the listener to know, that these budding entrepreneurs that are creatives that [00:54:00] have this idea, like if you're like, oh my gosh, that's so weird.

[00:54:03] Kellee: Nobody's doing that. Maybe I shouldn't do it. That's a good sign. 

[00:54:06] Jess: I just, and that's the thing though, like it's, we, I want people to do it, but I want them to remember that like there is a process and a path that you can strategically walk to make yourself feel safer doing it. Right. Because one of my, like, one of the things I've noticed is like, business people are lovely, whatever.

[00:54:27] Jess: Like I married one, like he's great. He's not like creative soul invested in the work or whatever, does a job. He's happy with it. I'm cut a little different, but as creatives. I've found it almost means that we inherently care more about the stuff we're doing because we feel like we're so, it's like we're birthing a part of ourselves, right?

[00:54:47] Jess: Like, what's that old line? Like, oh, how to be a writer. You open up a vein and bleed, and I'm like, Jesus Christ, buddy. Like, that's a little in debt, right? Like we have all these ideas about like pouring our soul out and all of these things, the [00:55:00] torture, tortured art, like starving, starving artists. Like I'm here to, if anything, I'm here to embody the fact that you do not need to be tortured or starving.

[00:55:08] Jess: You can make tons of money and like be creative and it's all okay. Nobody's gonna come and hunt you down. Like it's, but it's remembering that these things that we see as obstacles, like all of the blocks, like I, there's millions of them that I walk people through and stuff. All of those blocks aren't actually blocks.

[00:55:25] Jess: I just use that term because people get what it means, right? Mm-hmm. , those are the doorways. And every single time you can strategically, almost like metabolize, cuz there's energy in that block. and you can take that from the spiritual, like the Woo land, or you can think of it just like nervous system energy.

[00:55:41] Jess: You know when you have the like epiphany moment, right? Like when you said, oh, who am I to keep this to myself? That energy is moving in you now, right? Yeah. Like that's a shift energetically and emotionally happening. All of these things that people feel of like, oh, I'm second guessing myself. Or like I'm hustling too much.

[00:55:57] Jess: I'm burning out all of those so-called [00:56:00] blocks. If you get eyes on them, which is why I use that term all the time, like just get eyes on it. You can metabolize that and with that, that will literally power your next step down the path. So like, don't be afraid of like, oh my God, but I have so many. Hurdles and blocks and snags and this and that.

[00:56:18] Jess: Like the more blocked you feel, the more energy is waiting there to be that like propeller for you forward. And it's okay that you care a lot. It's okay that you're looking around and being like, I feel like I'm trying to like tear my heart out and put it on a sales page or something. Like, that's okay.

[00:56:34] Jess: And there are ways to learn to do this work where you don't feel like you're leaving your beating heart on the internet. But it does feel a. Right. Like there's exactly, it's all experience, but I wish that I could just like blah . Yeah. 

[00:56:48] Kellee: Well, and I understand, I understand where you're coming from, especially because, you know, we have a great idea where we think it's coming back full circle to the beginning.

[00:56:58] Kellee: We think it's supposed to be easy. [00:57:00] It's just that we wanna be able to do it with easy. It's not gonna be easy, it's gonna take a long time. So I really have relied on mentors and I have hired coaches and very thoughtfully at making sure that they're speaking my same language. Yeah, yeah. Um, and I, it has made a difference in propelling me forward and if, and if at the times where I couldn't afford something fancier, just finding community made a huge difference.

[00:57:28] Jess: Yeah. 

[00:57:28] Kellee: Those connections, bouncing those ideas off of other people really helps you like, Reflect back what's going on in yourself? If, if it's a healthy relationship, let's just say that. Yeah, for sure. We are talk, we know that, like I'm just talking about in those situations where I've found my, my people, my community, my circle, and I just feel so excited to be able to show up like people like you, Jess, and show up and talk to me cause I'm passionate about.

[00:57:52] Kellee: Then you hear it come and you're like, it actually moves me through those blocks. Yeah. To get to the other side today. Oh, okay. [00:58:00] Now I see where I was stuck. And it doesn't mean that, well, what, where's the obstacle? Is the way, where is that 

[00:58:06] Jess: from? Why have I, oh gosh. I have no idea. It's been, it's been on a cross-stitch for decades though.

[00:58:12] Jess: In millennia, probably like a Sun Zoo or something . 

[00:58:16] Kellee: So don't let it stop you from, from that big, big audacious stream. So I'm gonna end with that. Jess, tell me what your big audacious stream is at the moment Right here 

[00:58:26] Jess: in 2023. I have so many. My main focus, my big audacious dream for 2023, is trying to get as many aligned and within integrity sold into my creative money awakening, because that is at this moment and will likely continue to be the only place to work with me in terms of like a live context, a, you know, that supportive community.

[00:58:49] Jess: I don't do one-to-one. I don't do like I've, I'm leaning into my skillset. It's not that I don't love one-to-one and I don't have great feedback from it. It's just I know where I'm most needed. [00:59:00] Um, so I have that amazing program that we're building every day. I am also going to be launching a YouTube channel coming up this year.

[00:59:08] Jess: Um, all of that fun stuff, right? Like all of the, I wanna share more well of this stuff, of these little snippets of conversations and stuff to make it a little bit more palatable and a little bit more digestible. Because I know there's a lot of people sharing like, motivation, right? Like, do the thing and like,

[00:59:27] Jess: That to me falls short. And what I don't like is that can easily, it can kind of be weaponized. Like the gratitude, right? Yeah. That we were talking about where it's like, oh, well, like I'm trying to do the thing, but like I'm self sabotaging, I'm being human, I'm procrastinating, like I have these millions of things that are piling up, like I like helping people take really tangible, actionable, digestible little baby steps, like room steps is what we call them in my community.

[00:59:51] Jess: And I would love to create more free content just around that stuff so that no matter where people are at, again, like there's no value ladders to be seen in [01:00:00] my world. I want it to be like an open garden door and you walk in, you're like, oh, look at all these little fun things. And like, that's gonna be my MO for 2023.

[01:00:08] Kellee: Yes. Anything like wild and off the cuff, like maybe a big exotic vacation 

[01:00:15] Jess: or, oh gosh, I, so we went to Ireland not too long ago. Um, we went when it was a little cold and that was fine. I love cold vacations. I'm not a hot weather soul. Me too. Um, not a big fan. Oh, you're in 

[01:00:27] Kellee: Toronto, so that's probably I 

[01:00:29] Jess: am

[01:00:30] Jess: Yeah, . Like I was born in it. They say like, what's that banin thing? Like you merely adopted the gold. I was born to it. Yeah. That's my world. I think Audacious vacations. Oh gosh. I don't know. I'm not sure about that. I would, we have been eyeballing, um, a trip maybe, maybe Australia, New Zealand at some point, but that's like a big one.

[01:00:52] Jess: I've been there once before, but my husband hasn't. Um, so maybe something like that. But I think for the most part it's going to. [01:01:00] Um, tending the home space. , tending the home space. Like, I don't know if you can tell in my background, I just set up this like lovely wall here. Some of those Ikea frames, they don't even have art in them yet.

[01:01:11] Jess: so like that is what needs to happen next. . I just put it up on the weekend. . 

[01:01:16] Kellee: Well, I'm gonna guess that, that you could probably pick a lot of amazing art 

[01:01:21] Jess: from all of our listeners. . Darn right. Yes. Find me on Instagram. Just kidding. There you go. Send me your artwork, . Send me your 

[01:01:29] Kellee: links, , and, and to find you.

[01:01:32] Kellee: You're at Jess Keating books. Correct. And they can find you on your website 

[01:01:38] Jess: where. That is jess keating.com. I send out a weekly Epic email with all. Again, if you like these conversations, get on the Epic email list. It's some of the best in the business that I'm really proud of. Um, and you can join Money Awakening Course, my CMA program.

[01:01:54] Jess: And I also have a Facebook group called Wild Wealth Circle, which I will welcome you with Open Arms and [01:02:00] that's all absolutely free. Yay. 

[01:02:02] Kellee: I love it. Jess, thank you so much. Like this has been, 

[01:02:06] Jess: oh wait, we need, we need to do it again. , do it again tomorrow. 

[01:02:10] Kellee: I'm sure you'll, you'll see Jess and I chatting a lot more in the coming future.

[01:02:14] Kellee: So thank you again. And, and thank you everyone for 

[01:02:17] Jess: listening. Thank you for having me. 

[01:02:21] Kellee: Wow, you guys, what did you think? That conversation just brought up so much for me, it got my wheels spinning. It's a balance between the science side, the psychology side versus the spiritual side of creativity. And one of my biggest takeaways was that we can want more and it is not wrong to want more, and that we can do it in our own way, in our own path and not have to follow some exact formula.

[01:02:48] Kellee: The pathway is different for each and every one of us, so we really appreciate Jess Keating showing up for us today. Sharing with us her really like in-depth knowledge [01:03:00] of the process of creativity and what it takes to really like bring yourself to that flow state and that gratitude state and that state of still wanting more out of your life and and being able to do that even when you are so fortunate where you are right now with your life.

[01:03:19] Kellee: My friends, thank you so much for listening to the Made Remarkable Podcast. Thank you so much for coming on this journey with me. As we have unfolded quite a bit over the last few weeks, changing directions, opening up new possibilities, and really kind of looking at the world for the remarkable thing that it is and the remarkable way that.

[01:03:40] Kellee: Are part of it and really am glad that you're on this journey with me. It, it just means so much I can't even express it. And when I see you sharing this on Instagram and talking about your experience with the podcast and what it means to you, it really warms my heart. Some of the conversations that I've had with people in my DM so far have just really been [01:04:00] so lovely and so touching.

[01:04:02] Kellee: So pop in there. Let's have a little conversation about where you're at and where you're going and, and please keep sharing the podcast tag. Kellee Wynne Studios or Made Remarkable on Instagram, pretty much anywhere you find social media. We've got the same handles. I'd love for you to share it. And then also, one more thing before we finish, I'm gonna remind you again about 100 ways to make money as an artist without selling your art, because I really wanna get your wheels turning to think about.

[01:04:34] Kellee: How we do this differently, that there isn't just one path, there isn't just one way and your creativity deserves to be seen. So whether you're just showing up to share it or you're ready to make income off of it and make it aligned with who you are and profitable. If you've been working at creating a business and you're stuck and you're not sure why, this is your opportunity to really kind of dig deep and see [01:05:00] if what you're creating is aligned with who you are.

[01:05:02] Kellee: So just go to made remarkable.com/ 100 and download 100 ways to make money as an artist without selling your art. And it is a free guide. No, no attachments to it. Just come and take a look. Highlight the ones that are interesting to you and see what that common thread is. All right. Thank you so much everybody.

[01:05:25] Kellee: Love you so much. Talk to you later. Bye.[01:06:00] 


If you'd like to listen to or learn more about the podcast visit https://www.maderemarkable.com/blog  for our show notes and links to the main players.