Kellee Wynne [00:00:01]:
Well, hello.

Kellee Wynne [00:00:02]:
It's Kelly Wynne of the Made Remarkable Podcast. And, yes, I recognize we had another little break in service, but thank you for hanging in there with me. It's pretty much just me running the show with this podcast right now, so if I have to take a break, I have to take a break. I have other things going on, and I can only juggle so much. And I know you relate to that, so I'm being as transparent as possible to show you you don't have to have it perfect to run your business. You do what you can when you can. As long as you're showing up authentically, doing it your way is really what I preach and what I teach. Okay, so we have a bunch of really great episodes coming out, so it's worth it.

Kellee Wynne [00:00:48]:
Sticking around. Let me tell you, today is a great example of that, because I have Becky Jones Springer on the podcast, and I have admittedly been kind of fangirling over her while she's been fangirling over me. And somehow we both realize that we get on the podcast and it's like, oh, oh, okay, we hit it off. I adore her. The reason I've been so attracted to her as an artist and as an art teacher is because she is so authentically her. She's a perfect example of how building a business around your own values, your own personality, the things that you love, and showing up true to yourself can create an incredibly magnetic. I hate using the word brand, but it is a magnetic brand, a magnetic business, but she's just a magnetic artist and human being. I think what you're going to love about Becky, besides the fact that she has got this infectious, joyful personality, is that her life didn't just blissfully run along until she built this big, beautiful business.

Kellee Wynne [00:02:05]:
It actually was a long time in the making. Through the ups and downs, the struggles of life, being part of the LGBT community, being rejected by her very traditional family, running through health problems and work problems and all the things that most of us face at one level or another and why we turn to art. So as she came back to art, she realized how important it was to her to literally, she says, save her life. And you're going to hear from her how she took that and transformed it into the teaching she has now, which is incredible, because she's infusing everything about her life experience into how she wants to show up now and what kind of safe community she can create for queers, rebels, misfits, and allies. And. And I love that about her. I think that was why I needed to have her on the podcast. One thing that I love to teach inside of Build it, remarkable, and hopefully you've caught this on the podcast, is how important it is to show up in integrity with our values, wearing them on our sleeve and sharing just exactly who we are.

Kellee Wynne [00:03:29]:
Not only is this great for business because it's gonna push away the people that aren't meant to work with you and pull in the people that are meant to work you, it's also freeing and healing to ourselves and to our souls to be able to be more in alignment with who we are instead of blanding ourselves to the greater public. Trying to be general and to be for everybody. It kind of suffocates ourselves and then puts us in awkward situations where we have to defend who we are and what we believe and how we want to show up. That's happened to me so many times, and that's probably why you hear me being more vocal about what I believe, about being an advocate and an ally, about supporting the marginalized, the disenfranchised, and really, honestly being more, more me. Which is hard because the more you lean into who you are, the more you put yourself in a vulnerable place. So it does take courage and bravery and get to the ro of standing up for what you believe in and showing up as much as you possibly can as yourself. Despite the fact that there's going to be rejection, there's going to be harsh words, there's going to be times where it makes you feel lonely, and there are going to be other times where it makes you feel incredibly deeply connected with the greater world. I know that that's what's happened for me when I'm in cohort with my members of Build It Remarkable.

Kellee Wynne [00:05:11]:
There is a deep connection, a synergy that I can't explain. And one of the things that I've said, as I've done my workshops, you know the thing you do to introduce yourself to potential customers. I shop very much as myself, but I also say only the nicest, best people join my program. Now, mind you, this is to people who haven't joined yet. So what I'm saying is, is if you're there, if you are in, it's because you're meant to be there and you're meant to help create the energy that's inside the program. We are very close, we are very supportive, and I love that about the community. I love that I make it very clear where I stand. So we have a lot of personalities and characters that just shine through in the program, I think, because I put that information on my sleeve, because I put it out there, because I talk about it on the podcast, because I put it on my social media.

Kellee Wynne [00:06:17]:
Becky also felt like my program was going to be a safe place for her. And I'm so grateful to her for that, that she knew and understood that it would be a good fit. So, not ironically, but coincidentally, maybe, Becky ended up joining Build It. Remarkable. When this podcast episode wrapped up, she's working on building her online courses because that is more accessible for a lot of people than the retreat she's been teaching. Now, she's not giving up retreats. Don't worry, you'll still have a chance to work with her in person. But I feel so honored that I get to help her build her business online and do it very much with her personality and her beliefs and her values infused in what she's doing.

Kellee Wynne [00:07:10]:
When you see that blue hair pop into your feed, when you see those bright clothes and the singing and dancing and her stories of her her life coming out, LGBTQ and her trans husband, you will know that she's showing up very much as herself, taking the risk and then building something beautiful for as safe of a place as possible for others to join her. I adore her, but I adore every person that comes into my program. I fangirl over each and every one of them because so many amazing ideas and beautiful life experiences are being brought to the forefront to help and serve other people. Like, there's nothing more exciting to me than. Than to see that happen with other people. And it's been a big challenge for me because I put aside teaching art in order to teach people how to build their educational businesses with, you know, and I've questioned myself so many times because I feel like that art piece was such a huge part of my business for so long. I don't want people to think that I've given up on art or that I don't believe in teaching art. It's just that I've come to the point where I realize if I can send more Becky's into this world, if I can send more Susans into this world, so many artists, then I feel like I'm doing my work, the work that I'm meant to do, and that's my goal, is to help you figure out what you are meant to do.

Kellee Wynne [00:08:45]:
Even if you've been building for a long time, even if you already have a business that's successful, you know that there's more for you. You know that you're Meant to do more and to reach more people and to help more people. And honestly, you have the skills you deserve to build the income to go with it. Because the better resourced we are, the better we can take care of ourselves, our family, and serve more people. That's my goal. If you feel like what I'm talking about on the podcast connects with you and your vision of what the future could be when we create something beautiful, then I think it's time for you to get on the wait list for Build It. Remarkable. That's Kelly Wynn, because you are my priority, and I would love for you to get on that list, because I'm going to open the doors again.

Kellee Wynne [00:09:35]:
I know I just invited a whole new group in, but I'm going to keep this rolling so that you don't have to wait so long to get going in the direction of your big, audacious dreams. Okay? I love you all. I really do. The connections I've made because of the podcast, because of social media, because of the business that I run, have been absolutely essential to building the most fulfilling life that I can imagine. So I'm grateful to you. Now, enough of me chattering. Let's listen to Becky.

Kellee Wynne [00:10:11]:
Hi, Becky.

Becky Joan Springer [00:10:13]:
Hi, Kelly.

Kellee Wynne [00:10:14]:
Okay, so I have been stalking you or following you, however you want to say it, and admiring you for a very long time, and this is our first time talking. But one of the first things I said, too, is it's like your personality shines through. And so it's so fun to have you on the podcast and talk to you.

Becky Joan Springer [00:10:34]:
Yeah. Thank you for inviting me. I had no idea you were. You started commenting, I think, in the last year, and I was like, I

Kellee Wynne [00:10:41]:
followed you for so long.

Becky Joan Springer [00:10:43]:
I was so excited to connect with you.

Kellee Wynne [00:10:45]:
But, you know, you are just. You're. You're in a category of your own, which excites me. And what I was saying is I even share, like, how you've built your brand to my students in my program, because I, you know, some people, it's on their style of art, but some people, it's just their entire voice, their personality, their life, their whole being. And I love that about you, that you've brought your whole being into what you're doing for others.

Becky Joan Springer [00:11:16]:
Yeah, thank you. I don't think that's what I was doing always, but I really feel like I've. I'm sharing more of myself, and it feels the more I'm doing that and my personality, the more it feels really authentic to me, and I wish I was doing that the whole time, but I wasn't able to. So I just feel. Yeah. I don't know if it's the perimenopause or. Or the time and space, but I just do not care. I don't give a.

Becky Joan Springer [00:11:45]:
Like, this is who I am.

Kellee Wynne [00:11:47]:
Yeah, exactly.

Becky Joan Springer [00:11:48]:
Love it. Or you're not. So here I am. Yeah.

Kellee Wynne [00:11:50]:
And I think we'll talk about that a little bit more as we get into this podcast. But I want you to tell your story because some listeners may know you and some may not, but you are an art teacher now. You're an artist.

Becky Joan Springer [00:12:05]:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne [00:12:06]:
And let's talk about your journey and how you got here and. And anything else you want to share.

Becky Joan Springer [00:12:11]:
Okay. How far back you want to go. So I started. So I was like a lot of folks. I was really creative when I was young, but I never thought it was like I lived in the art classroom. I was always doodling. I was doing all of that.

Kellee Wynne [00:12:28]:
But.

Becky Joan Springer [00:12:28]:
And I took classes in college. I took undergrad. I was working towards an art minor. What's really funny is that I steered away from painting because the main painting professor at my college did realism and landscapes and was really critical of my work. And so I leaned into printmaking and sculpting sculpture, but it was really just for fun. In college, I really focused heavily on academia, and I was in the Midwest and I was struggling with. I come from a Pentecostal family, a really conservative area. And I went to a college that was unbeknownst to me even when I before attending, but was known as like, the gay college of the Midwest.

Becky Joan Springer [00:13:15]:
And was this really progressive. And it was actually a Lutheran college. It was rooted in faith, which is why I think my parents were supportive of me going. Little did they know my whole world was about to crack open. And I started diving deep into women's studies and feminism and queer theory. And I was. My whole. Like, everything changed for me and I really.

Becky Joan Springer [00:13:38]:
And I started studying sociology. And so then I. Art was just for the fun on the side. And I thought I was going to be a sociology professor, women's studies professor for a really long time. So I got really into academia. I went to grad school. I started working at DV shelters in social work, like, social service settings. I started teaching in academia and gender studies.

Becky Joan Springer [00:14:04]:
I ended up getting a master's with an emphasis in queer theory and gender studies. So totally different trajectory. I thought I was just going to be in higher ed. And that's kind of was my world for a really long time. And then I went on. I moved to Portland, Oregon. I. I started working at a community college, and I spent two decades there in that world.

Becky Joan Springer [00:14:29]:
I ended up running an LGBTQ center on a college campus.

Kellee Wynne [00:14:34]:
Oh, wow.

Becky Joan Springer [00:14:35]:
And that, I really thought was my dream. Like, it was. I loved my students. I loved. I got to build out student leadership development programs and teaching to professors on campus on how to be more welcoming and inclusive to queer and trans folks on the campus. How to. Even from the admission standpoint, anyway, I was in this totally different world. I was really passionate about it, but I ended up working a really toxic work environment and struggling.

Becky Joan Springer [00:15:08]:
And then I had personal life stuff come up. I was. I married my partner who was trans. We've been together for almost 21 years. And in the process of doing that, I lost my biological family. And it was. I mean, of course, it was really hard. It was really.

Becky Joan Springer [00:15:25]:
I mean, it was a really, really hard time in my life. And then we. I just. It was like one thing after another. We were trying to get pregnant. We did infertility treatments for. Ended up being almost 10. And in that process, I found out I had uterine cancer.

Becky Joan Springer [00:15:44]:
And so it was just like. It was so hard. It was so hard. And I. It was just. I look back now, and I'm like, how did I survive? Like, it was a really, really hard time. And in that time, what was happening is I was looking for anything to help me keep going, and I went back to art. So it's.

Becky Joan Springer [00:16:02]:
It. It was really became this outlet for me in more, like, I didn't just go back to art. Like, I became obsessed with it. I started taking. I took a retreat. And I was lucky that one of the people who taught painting is local, who was famous in doing retreats was Flora Bowley. And I took retreats with her. And then I found every different art line, online classes I could take, and everything from art journaling to watercolor to acrylic painting to.

Becky Joan Springer [00:16:35]:
I mean, everything. I just. I was obsessed. And it really became this lifeline for me. And in doing that, I had even in Flora was really supportive and pulled me aside one time and was like, students are coming to you. Like, gravitate towards you. Like, was really supportive. And then another teacher I worked with said something similar.

Becky Joan Springer [00:16:55]:
And then. So I started. What happened from there is I started offering workshops in my garage. I turned my garage into a teaching space. And this was probably 2018, 2019, and I was doing it on the weekends or, like, on my off, but I was. Right away, I was like, I love this, it took everything from my teaching. And I was teaching. I had been teaching alongside of running the LGBTQ center, but I was teaching student development.

Becky Joan Springer [00:17:31]:
I was teaching counseling and guidance courses. But a lot of what I was teaching in those classes, I was weaving into these classes. So, like, setting the space for people to be comfortable and vulnerable, letting people explore, talking about what life experiences they're bringing in, and then letting people and just paint and be free. And I leaned into the intuitive painting process. Anyway, I'm rambling, but I started teaching in my garage and I was, I had taught retreats in my garage and I was getting ready to offer more. And then the pandemic happened and yes, everything changed. I literally, I had taught two sold out retreats. I had two more scheduled to go.

Becky Joan Springer [00:18:14]:
And then it was like, never mind. Like, what you got to read. Totally 100% mine too.

Kellee Wynne [00:18:21]:
I had some scheduled for 2020 and just that was the end of that. I tried to get them going again in 2021 and I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm okay letting this go. Someone else can teach the retreats, although I have a little FOMO now, but I love that. And now you're. Now, once the craziness of that settled down, you got back into teaching retreats.

Becky Joan Springer [00:18:44]:
Yeah, And I did what I feel like is the opposite of a lot of people these days. Like, I, I, in person was what I was really craving. And before and after, like, that's where I felt like. So I didn't cultivate the online classes first. I really wanted to be in person and I really. So right after. So what I did though, in the pandemic was I hired. I started working with Jody King and did business coaching.

Becky Joan Springer [00:19:08]:
So what I think it just, it was like another pivot for me. And I opened an in person. I opened a space in Portland and I taught out of that space as soon as I had it ready to go. So I opened it. During the pandemic, I worked with Jodi to do business coaching around getting specific around my artist statement and my why and my purpose. And I think I've done a lot more even work since then around that. But I had the space ready to go. So when people started returning to in person, I started offering a lot of again, still, I still have my full time job, but more on that later.

Becky Joan Springer [00:19:49]:
But I still have my full time job, but I was offering these in person workshops on evenings and on weekends, and I was doing both. And I was, I just wanted to teach. I remember something Jody said to Me, she was like, just teach as much as you can. Like get as much. There's something that happens in person where you connect with people one on one. Absolutely. And the more you teach and the more you hone in on that and I really, I really love it. Like I knew, I knew it was my purpose.

Becky Joan Springer [00:20:17]:
I really believe it's my purpose and my calling was to do this right away. But I also was really afraid of quitting my job and taking.

Kellee Wynne [00:20:28]:
But you're. I see the connection from what you were doing before to what you're doing now. You're just have a different medium of delivery, right?

Becky Joan Springer [00:20:37]:
Yeah, yeah. And I believe I. Yes, I 100 see the connection. And I'm really only recently really recognizing how important that is and leaning into like my identity as a queer person, my identity as a radical woke woman. That is my audience and that is. I really am like, that's who I want to serve and who I want to be in community with. And I am bringing. I am the way I cultivated safer spaces in academia.

Becky Joan Springer [00:21:15]:
I'm really bringing that into my. Our workshops and my art retreats. And so yes, I think there is 100% overlap. So beyond like just the basics of teaching and knowing how to like adapt to different learning styles and learning how to like be mindful and like setting up classrooms and all of that, but it's really also bringing in my person into the space as well, which I think is really important. And then when I realized that is when I started taking all those retreats that I was in which I loved and I still take retreats, I just took one and my first one in a while, but my first in person retreat as a student. It was so good for me this fall. But what I saw and what I saw in the one I just took is that a lot of the ones I was taking had the same demographic of folks, which is lovely and wonderful, but it was a lot of the same people. It was this homogenous group of older white women who had money or who were going through a life stage.

Becky Joan Springer [00:22:15]:
But I also was some. That there wasn't as much like there were as many queer folks in there. There weren't as many kind of the radical feminist. Exactly. Yes.

Kellee Wynne [00:22:29]:
And I can tell you exactly why that is, is because a lot of people who do this, a lot of artists who are teachers keep it neutral, which is fine. That's their choice. But I also encourage, especially within my program and even for myself, the more you that you are, the more the. The space is gonna one you're gonna enjoy it more as the teacher and people will be drawn to that, to that fact that you're creating that safe haven for queer and marginalized and then just the whole gamut of. I love radical Woke woman. But like, yeah, so, so I, I, I know exactly what you're saying and that's why. Well, one of the reasons why I'm drawn to you is because it isn't the same homogenous thing. And I get it.

Kellee Wynne [00:23:21]:
Like, let's talk about the demographics of most of the women who are learning art and taking art and paying for these retreats. I get it. But where is that space where you feel like you can really let loose? And I'll be honest, that's probably one of the main reasons I stopped teaching in person is because I, I wanted to be me. And sometimes that's offensive to other people. If I'm like really an advocate for the gay community, for the minorities, I am an advocate for that. So the moment that you speak up, there's people who are like, this isn't what I came for. And I'm like, then you don't know me. You weren't paying attention.

Kellee Wynne [00:24:03]:
So if you're not paying attention, then obviously you're going to be a little surprised. But I'm with you on that. There has to be a space where we can be ourselves and feel free

Becky Joan Springer [00:24:11]:
to do that well. And I'll tell you. So I just took that online or that in person retreat in the fall and there was a different artist that I was thinking of studying with because I loved her work, I wanted to work big, I wanted to travel. And I went and looked at her social media and learned rather quickly who she was following. And I was like, and it was, I didn't know this. You couldn't tell just by looking at herself. But anyway, she was, she's conservative. And I learned that very quickly through and I was like, I don't feel I won't feel safer in that space.

Becky Joan Springer [00:24:43]:
And that and so I want to know that I feel safer as a queer person, as a someone who cares about the world right now. I want to know that I feel safer in that space. And it was terrifying because I'm also, Eventually I ended up quitting my full time job and decided to do this full time. And I think I did kind of blanket myself more neutrally. I look at, I did a branding then and I had someone build my website and I didn't market myself. And I also, I mean it was complicated as well because I like, I Said I've lost my family, and I was really afraid of my conservative family and being my outspoken, full self. But I also can't help it. Like, I just.

Becky Joan Springer [00:25:26]:
This is who I am. And I've always been really outspoken. And I, I. What I started to see is who was showing up in my classes, including men, including gay men. And I have a lot of gay male friends. And so they started feeling like, safer to come in and be artistic in ways, and they had in a long time. And when I teach these retreats now, I actually get that from a lot of the retreat hosts. Like, you're one of the only artists that bring in men often, and they're usually gay men who are coming into spaces because it's also disadvantaging men that they can't feel liberated enough to create again and be creative.

Becky Joan Springer [00:26:01]:
Anyway, that's a whole nother topic. But I was afraid. And I marketed myself really leaning in, toward, towards teaching intuitive painting. But I was. I think I was afraid to market myself as this queer, outspoken, misfit rebel. And I'm going through a rebrand right now. And what I'm learning is that I'm really, I'm not. I'm not as afraid of that.

Becky Joan Springer [00:26:25]:
And I was so afraid because I'd. Anytime I'd post about being queer online, I would lose the most followers. I still do all the time. And I get comments. I got a bunch of hate comments. I was advertising a retreat I'm doing in Palm Springs, and I really was intentional. Like, this is. I.

Becky Joan Springer [00:26:41]:
This is. I want queer folks to show up for this retreat. It's in Palm Springs. It's one of the places that I love to be. And I got so much hate mail, like, so many DMs and comments, and I decided to just start sharing it and being like, here's the deal. Like, if I'm not the teacher for you, yeah, that, fine. But I want, I want a space where people will feel safer. And I, I really.

Becky Joan Springer [00:27:05]:
What I've learned and what I'm learning is that. And you talk about this like finding your niche is that my, my audience won't be as broad. But that's not a bad thing.

Kellee Wynne [00:27:18]:
It's not. It's your advantage.

Becky Joan Springer [00:27:20]:
Yeah, it really is. And I wish I would have Jody

Kellee Wynne [00:27:23]:
told me that, like five years ago,

Becky Joan Springer [00:27:25]:
of course you're doing something different. But I was so afraid. And the more outraged I get and the more I see that people really need. Need me, need these spaces, need art, the more I'm. I'm just getting more and more unapologetically me, which is good. Which is great.

Kellee Wynne [00:27:43]:
That's fantastic. You used a word. And I think that this is the part that listeners need to focus in. It's the safe space. It's not about excluding somebody. It's about making sure that people who may feel excluded in other places know they can come and be themselves and be safe.

Becky Joan Springer [00:28:02]:
Yeah. So the way I'm rebranding around myself is around queer folks and like misfits or rebels or that it's not just. It's not just going to be for queer folks, but it's going to be. But it's going to. It's just going to be intentionally a supportive, safe space. And I can't guarantee. I used to teach us actually about. I can't guarantee 100% safe.

Becky Joan Springer [00:28:28]:
I'm a white woman. I'm acknowledging that like, yeah, but I want it to be safer. Safer for folks so that they. Off the bat, I'm looking at. I'm being really intentional looking at welcoming folks and to make it more accessible, to make it more just really intentional in the. And create cultivating space where we're. Where a myriad of voices can show up and be their wildest, weirdest, this most bold self.

Kellee Wynne [00:28:57]:
Yeah. So, you know, I give the same advice to all of my, I guess you could say clients or members of my program is to lean in more to who you are. And that means on any spectrum. Like, so sometimes I have Christian women who come into my program. They're more the Lutheran type, Christian women, like your school. They're very open because if not they'd be very uncomfortable with me. But I tell them, why are you not making a space for women like you? So it's not like I'm sitting here advocating that everyone needs to be a specific way, but I'm advocating everyone to be more of themselves. And the more we're niche like that, the more we have other people who are like, finally I found my people.

Kellee Wynne [00:29:40]:
I found a place that I can relate to. I found a place that I can be myself and not have to hold anything back. And that's why I encourage building a niche off of yourself, off of your personality, off of your desires, off of the way you want that. That space to feel. Because then it's more fun for everyone involved. You know what I mean?

Becky Joan Springer [00:30:02]:
I do. And I think the other way I do that is it's. It's been my other dilemma around for so long. And I see this, like even in the art that sells it's this, like, muted, really. I mean, our whole world is getting less and less color. And the other way I've been really leaning into that is I've tried painting really muted and really soft, and that is not me. The other way I'm leaning into it is with color and with joy and cultivate. Like, that's my other.

Becky Joan Springer [00:30:32]:
Really blue hair. Yeah, blue hair. Wild colors. Like, I just really. It's cultivating joy, because if not, I, I. I could be so sad, and I could be so. I am purposefully. But someone called me a joy monger last year, and I've been.

Kellee Wynne [00:30:50]:
Hold that.

Becky Joan Springer [00:30:51]:
Holding on to that.

Kellee Wynne [00:30:52]:
Hold on to that.

Becky Joan Springer [00:30:53]:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne [00:30:54]:
And that's how I feel when I look at you on your Instagram, when I see pictures of you hosting workshops, when you post your stories. And yes, I know that that's probably layered like most humans, with layers of sadness and struggle that force us to come to this place, but that's what art also does. And that was something that you chose to go into. And I'm pretty much gonna guess and assume your students are a lot like mine that turn to art to heal themselves.

Becky Joan Springer [00:31:25]:
Yeah, I mean, 100%. Like, and it's. It's like, it's just to be able to be. I really. It's to liberate folks. It's to be empowered. It's to be embodied for a lot of folks, for all different reasons. Like, there are so much.

Becky Joan Springer [00:31:43]:
There's just so much sadness and struggle. And I think the art is this space of being, creating space for ourselves. And when I first started painting, I didn't feel. I think about this a lot lately. I didn't feel embodied. I didn't feel like I could listen to my own voice. And so I think in the workshops, it's time that you can come into the space and be like, okay, I can set aside my inner critic or all the other stuff I have to do. And so while it's a joyful space, it's also often a space where people are bringing in whatever's showing up for them, and so they can be 100% in whatever's coming up.

Becky Joan Springer [00:32:27]:
So whatever. If that status, if it's frustration, but working towards it, and then it's just a lot of dancing and play and joy.

Kellee Wynne [00:32:36]:
Okay, so you got brave and quit your job.

Becky Joan Springer [00:32:41]:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne [00:32:42]:
So that you could do this full time.

Becky Joan Springer [00:32:44]:
Terrifying. So I was tenured, which is a big deal in academia.

Kellee Wynne [00:32:47]:
Yeah, it's a huge deal.

Becky Joan Springer [00:32:49]:
I was, for most of my relationship, like the breadwinner. I was the. Anyway, it was. I had a mortgage. I was so afraid for so long. But also, I think what happened in the pandemic was I was like, I. I can't deny this any longer. And I went.

Becky Joan Springer [00:33:09]:
I had like a breakdown. I ended up having to take a mental health leave of absence from my job. And I, I just was. I was really depressed. I was really struggling. And so I was like, this is what's going to happen. I'm going to do this. And so I quit my job and I worked.

Becky Joan Springer [00:33:26]:
I kept teaching classes out of my studio. But I also realized I had the studio open for two years. So the first couple years of the pandemic. But I realized and in talking to other friends in this world and in talking to my therapist and my partner is that I was putting all these eggs into these smaller classes. But my big dream was to teach internationally and eventually to start teaching online. But. And so that. And showing work.

Becky Joan Springer [00:34:00]:
I was just throwing everything and I was working so at the table and I was trying everything. And in some ways I'm still doing that. But I really. I made the decision to move back to my home studio and to start teaching international retreats and to gather for longer stretches of time. And so I offered one in Costa Rica and it sold out and it was amazing. And now I've offered. I did one in Italy. I'm doing one in Palm Springs.

Becky Joan Springer [00:34:31]:
I'm going to France. I'm slated out now through 2028.

Kellee Wynne [00:34:35]:
It's so cool. Yeah, it's so cool. We're probably all sold out.

Becky Joan Springer [00:34:41]:
Not yet, but they are get like, it's. Lots of stuff's going on, but it's, it's. It's this dream come true and it feels. I love. I hear. I was listening to your podcast recently and you're talking about how you're either at home or here somewhere around the world.

Kellee Wynne [00:34:58]:
And that's.

Becky Joan Springer [00:34:59]:
That's exactly me right now. Like, I. My biggest passion is around travel and being together in community. And I, I do that. I get to do that for my job, which is wild and amazing and beautiful. The other thing I'm doing is I've been leaning. I'm really. Music is really important to me.

Becky Joan Springer [00:35:18]:
And so I started. It was this like, kind of idea that I. I'm a huge Brandy Carlisle fan. I talk about her and.

Kellee Wynne [00:35:26]:
Oh yes.

Becky Joan Springer [00:35:28]:
But they invite. I got invited to teach a workshop at one of her music fe. And so. And that was. I was like, oh, is this a weird space to teach this? But it made so much sense because I'm in this fan community and a lot of her fans are queer folks and women and like it was just a natural fit. And I ended up teaching. So they offered one workshop and it sold out at 50 people. And then they ended up offering another one and it sold out.

Becky Joan Springer [00:35:58]:
And then I ended up teaching and partnering with her nonprofit. And I taught one last fall and it sold out as well. And so I'm going to be doing that again. And so that's been another like dream that I didn't know could be a reality. And I didn't think I was like 50 people. That feels really like a lot of folks can I do this? And I, I did it and it was wonderful. And a lot of those folks are end up are who are taking my retreats. It's from.

Becky Joan Springer [00:36:27]:
Come from this fan community. So again I think it was a. People needed the space and who love music. It was like this natural fit around that community. So I'm getting to partner with her nonprofit and teach workshops.

Kellee Wynne [00:36:44]:
That's how you be a groupie, right? You just come and teach art.

Becky Joan Springer [00:36:48]:
Yeah. So that's been really awesome and a dream that I didn't even. But I think if I would have stayed with the teaching in my these smaller workshops the day to day, like I think that, that I wouldn't. These dreams wouldn't have been able to open. So I feel like it's.

Kellee Wynne [00:37:03]:
So that's the thing is sometimes we do keep ourselves small. It's a limit that we kind of hit and we don't realize our potential or we know our potential, but we keep ourselves small out of fear or other reasons. What was the breakthrough for you to push through and go bigger. And these retreats are not cheap, which means that people who are choosing to come with you are really invested in you. And that's been one of my biggest holdbacks of going back into it is do people like me enough to spend 4,500 or more on a week long trip with me. And so you have to have a certain kind of confidence or suspend all belief and just say to hell with it, I'm doing it. What was that breakthrough for you to make that decision?

Becky Joan Springer [00:37:54]:
Well, I think the. I think because I taught the smaller classes and I got enough feedback from folks like. And I saw people wanted more than a day, more than two days like people really want. I would, I. And. And what I saw would happen is people come in and it usually takes about a day for people to warm up and get out of. Yeah, like they all come in scared. I go in scared to everyone.

Becky Joan Springer [00:38:17]:
I still do, like, intimidating. It's terrifying to show up with a bunch of strangers for a week in some another country or another state. But then I saw what happened and what happens in every single retreat. It was this sense of community that's fostered and it's hard to describe. I still can't find the language around describing what happens when you give yourself that week. And I saw the trust that I was able to foster in the community. I saw the joy, I saw the vulnerability and the painting. The people were able to break through and go through the painting process.

Becky Joan Springer [00:38:58]:
And so I think what just started happening is I really built this. I just built trust in myself that I knew that I could do this. And now I don't even know how to describe it, but I, I, I, I'm terrified still, like, and I'm just doing it anyway because I trust that I, I've seen this, I've seen what could happen. I. And it's just this, like, in truth, like, knowing my. I don't know how, I still can't

Kellee Wynne [00:39:28]:
even find the word.

Becky Joan Springer [00:39:29]:
I just know that this is my purpose and I just, I'm gonna keep going on no matter what. Like, right now.

Kellee Wynne [00:39:35]:
That is amazing. It's hard to find the words, but that is exactly how I feel. Sometimes I think people think I'm, like, overly gushing, but I love what I do. And when I'm doing it, I know I'm in my, I'm. I know I'm in my zone of genius. I like to use that term. Have you ever heard that before?

Becky Joan Springer [00:39:55]:
No, I think I have, but I love it. That's a great way to.

Kellee Wynne [00:39:58]:
Yeah. And so when you're in that space, I think there's no other option but to move forward with it. Otherwise, you feel like you're denying your whole. Not just yourself, but all the people who would receive the gifts that you give. By showing up, you're denying that to be true, to be in existence. And so it's like, okay, look, I'm not sitting here trying to say I'm the best ever, but I love my program. I believe in my program. And if I didn't, I wouldn't keep showing up, up for it, you know? You know what I mean? Like, and when you see, then it's scary.

Kellee Wynne [00:40:34]:
It's terrifying for me. Every single time I offer it, every time I put it up for sale, I am like, who am I to be doing this? And so, if anything, I hope people know we all just still sit here with the impostor imposter syndrome and we push through and we do it anyway. You have to when you know and then you do it and it's like, oh, okay, I was right. Because this is a blast.

Becky Joan Springer [00:40:59]:
Yeah. I think of every retreat host is always like, your groups are the loudest, they laugh the most, they are the rowdiest. They are. And I am like, hell yeah. I'm doing my job.

Kellee Wynne [00:41:10]:
Like this is. Okay, so now I know I need to come on one of your retreats because I think that's what I need. That's the antidote to what is the world outside our little, our little art bubble.

Becky Joan Springer [00:41:24]:
And I have people who show up again and again. So and that's what also I'm seeing. And I like they want more and more. And so yes, like that also has really been beautiful to see is that and the communities that are coming out of it and the connection. And I think we're all, I, myself included, like need it and hungry for it. And I just know that this is my what I am providing and what I can do and what I feel like I'm really, really meant to do. So my. I love that.

Becky Joan Springer [00:41:55]:
My zone of genius best.

Kellee Wynne [00:41:57]:
Yeah, absolutely. I have also re. Nick, I've kind of nicknamed it or renamed it to Rebel Genius because Perfect, perfect, you fit that description. Rebel Genius and not genius as in I'm so smart, I'm Einstein. But we are. The word genius used to be like to have genius but not to be genius. Right. So the genius is.

Kellee Wynne [00:42:23]:
It's been kind of transformed to something else in modern day. But I totally believe that. You know, you said you feel like you did it backwards. But what I have learned is more people come to me having taught workshops in person and now they're ready to like make it bigger, to reach out and reach more people. So I think the best teachers are the teachers who've taught in person.

Becky Joan Springer [00:42:47]:
Yeah. And I'm really intimidated by the online space and the teaching space, but I did it for the first time as part of like a artist who got up 20 artists together, 30 years together and who did a week long online retreat. And I taught and it was so great. And it was. I loved it. And so I know I'm ready. I know that's my next step. But right now I'm finalizing, I'm rebranding and relaunching my work, my website and then I'm going to start offering the online as well.

Kellee Wynne [00:43:17]:
But yeah, well, what's fun about online is you do get a chance to reach the people who might not be able to afford to come in person. And.

Becky Joan Springer [00:43:26]:
Which is important to me. That accessibility is important to me. Yeah.

Kellee Wynne [00:43:29]:
And. And honestly, most of my business is online, but I feel like I've created a real connection with people, even though I know it's always through zoom. But, like, I feel very fulfilled, and I think they do, too, by this space where we can come together and we can connect online. Which is probably why I feel fine just not having to leave the house, because I feel like I've just reached out into the world and. And connected with all of the most amazing people.

Becky Joan Springer [00:43:58]:
Yeah. I think I'm overwhelmed. And we can talk more about this. I'd love to pick your brain, but I'm overwhelmed by all the different platforms and the different avenues and offering the scope of the workshop. Anyway, so that's all the stuff I'm working through right now and my online offerings. And at one point, I wanted to do a membership, and at one point I just want to do standalone classes. So it's just me trying to sort out what makes the most sense. Sense for folks.

Becky Joan Springer [00:44:23]:
And.

Kellee Wynne [00:44:24]:
And so that's where having someone to bounce the ideas to work through and understand how to put it together, and that is my specialty. It really comes down to the fact that I love to talk and I have a million ideas. I. Well, not as many lately, because I'm just, like, trying to manage myself through this crazy world. But usually I have a ton of ideas. I'll wake up and have 100 before breakfast. Isn't that like a. An Alice in Wonderland? But that's me.

Kellee Wynne [00:44:51]:
It's like my brain just starts rapid firing. So for me to be able to work with other people and be like, okay, I see. This is what you said, and this is what you're doing, and this is what lights you up. And I'm like, did you see this connection? And they're like, I didn't see that connection. And I'm like, there you go. Run with it.

Becky Joan Springer [00:45:09]:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne [00:45:10]:
You know, so that's my favorite way is to just give that permission to do something unexpected and different from what you see everyone else doing. And that's probably part of the problem is you're like, it's supposed to be like this, but there is no supposed. Supposed to be. You get to do it any way that. That works for you.

Becky Joan Springer [00:45:28]:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne [00:45:29]:
You know?

Becky Joan Springer [00:45:30]:
Yes.

Kellee Wynne [00:45:31]:
How do you handle the. The. I mean, I've gotten a lot of mean comments, too. Anytime I stand up for Take A stand for what I believe, which is support of the lgbtq. And I put all the flags. I have the. I have a flag of. Of Palestine.

Becky Joan Springer [00:45:51]:
I have.

Kellee Wynne [00:45:51]:
I have all the flags in my bio, in Instagram. And I know it looks cheesy if someone goes. It's like, she's. She's just trying to Virtue signal. Which I'm like, am I doing that? And I'm like, no. I need to put a sign. I need to put my stake in the ground that says, this is who I am, so that you're not surprised later. I would rather you be like, okay, I'm not comfortable with that, and then walk away than to come into a program where I'm cultivating safety for myself and for others.

Kellee Wynne [00:46:22]:
And you'd be like, how dare you? And I'm like, I tried to tell you. It's even on my sales page. Like, we believe in DEI in this program.

Becky Joan Springer [00:46:32]:
Right?

Kellee Wynne [00:46:32]:
So, yeah, I do get, like, hate messages a lot of times. I just delete them and don't answer them at all because I'm not gonna entertain an argument every now and then. I get, like, a real friendly, kind, like, conversation, and then I am more than happy to have a conversation because I'm not trying to exclude anybody. I'm just trying to include the people. Like, all people. You know what I mean? Like, so how do you deal with it? I mean, like, I'm glad that you're outspoken about it. I'm glad that you've put your whole story and, you know, if people will get the link to your Instagram and to your website. But I love reading your story and that now you're brave enough to put all of that out there in a time where it's, like, more heated than ever.

Becky Joan Springer [00:47:19]:
Yeah. So that is the one thing I've been really, intentionally doing. I just, like, reintroduced myself because I got a bunch of followers recently, and I reintroduced myself, and I wanted to put it out right away. Like, here's the deal. I'm queer. My partner's trans. I've lost. I'm ex Pentecostal.

Becky Joan Springer [00:47:36]:
I've lost my family. Like, the importance of community is really important to me. It literally has saved my life. So I put it a. I put it out there right away, and that kind of circumvents. Again, I've lost people. But I found, like, a more engaged, and I found it a really intentional community that way.

Kellee Wynne [00:47:55]:
So.

Becky Joan Springer [00:47:55]:
Kelly, I love that you do that. I'm looking for other artists who do that. I'm always. It's Always like, is this an artist I feel safe with? I have had the hate. I ignore it. I. For the most part. I did post a bunch of the haters on like a post recently when

Kellee Wynne [00:48:14]:
I think that's kind of fair to.

Becky Joan Springer [00:48:16]:
Yeah. I just was like, here's the deal. I name it all the time. Like, hey, I'm gonna. It's National Coming out Day. I'm gonna come out and like, guess what? I'm gonna lose a bunch of followers. But then people will always be like, you gained one. Or you're like, again, I'm just really.

Kellee Wynne [00:48:31]:
Exactly. We're stuck out to know that we have allies everywhere.

Becky Joan Springer [00:48:38]:
Yeah. And I think I want. I was looking for. I remember I was really into scrapbooking was one of the avenues when I first started. And I learned very quick community. I was searching for scrapbookers who were queer and were. But it was such a different community. And I was.

Kellee Wynne [00:48:54]:
I started Mormons say what? Yeah, exactly. I was raised Mormon, so I totally relate to your traditional background.

Becky Joan Springer [00:49:04]:
Yeah. You know, so I learned. I was looking forward in that space. I remember. And that was 15 years ago. And then I was. So anyway, so I want to. I want it to be easier for folks to find me.

Becky Joan Springer [00:49:16]:
I have had. So I. I talked this in Italy this last fall. And right away the person who runs it was like, you know, I. The retreat hosts were like, I don't know if you want that. Like, you want to be. It's such a weird time. Like, we try to avoid politics in the retreats.

Becky Joan Springer [00:49:36]:
And I right away told. I was like, oh, you must not. Like, I. I know most of the people who are coming or I've already met with most of these folks. They know who I am. And right away it was very like people wanted to talk about it. We didn't spend all the time talking.

Kellee Wynne [00:49:50]:
Right. Of course. But just knowing there's a safe place to be. And.

Becky Joan Springer [00:49:55]:
Yeah. So I like, I let him know. I was like, this isn't going to be an issue.

Kellee Wynne [00:49:59]:
Like these.

Becky Joan Springer [00:50:00]:
These folks are going to show up and know who I am and it's. They're going to. And they. He ended up being so wonderful and loved our group so much. That's another thing I've been doing is like when I'm. Who I'm teaching with and who I'm hosting with, I'm making sure that they. Their values are aligned as well. And it's everything from like making sure that there's body positive seating.

Becky Joan Springer [00:50:24]:
So like little things that I think I'm Just really trying to be conscious of making sure that folks feel welcome and included in the spaces. And I can't do like a lot of these as far as accessibility, physical accessibility, it requires a lot of hiking and walking and traveling and so it's not always accessible. That's why the online portion is really important to me. But I want off the bat people to know like my values and what I stand for. So. But I did have an issue. So I teach as part of a conference style, art and soul. And so I did have one person in the class.

Becky Joan Springer [00:51:06]:
Yeah. So I teach, I'm about to teach there in like two weeks. I've taught for the last few years there and I had one person in a workshop up who said something about politics and it was very. She didn't come to this because she knew me. She came for the content I was teaching and didn't know me. And I, I did struggle in that conversation for a minute because I was like, I, you don't know who I am. This is like, you didn't show up because of me. And so I'm going in.

Becky Joan Springer [00:51:42]:
I had them when they advertised my workshop this time, like put my bio, I like infused some of the language into my workshop page. So even like every little way I can translate this to folks so that when they sign up they know that this is the experience when they're signing up. For me,

Kellee Wynne [00:52:05]:
we're living in such a time where our world that we see even online is so siloed. So there's a lot of people who, who unfortunately are way too focused on the trans issue when that's really a non issue compared to all the rest of the world. And so then there, I mind guessing is they haven't been exposed. Like when you went from your pentecostal conservative life into a very liberal college and was exposed to like the world. And I've heard that story many times where you just don't know what you don't know. And so I, I'm trying to be patient with that kind of judgment because I'm assuming they're siloed in and assume they're assuming that everyone probably thinks like them. Because when you surround yourself with, you surround yourself with like people usually. But that's why everyone resists that niche.

Kellee Wynne [00:53:03]:
Why do they resist when I'm coaching and when I'm talking to artists and I'm like, niche, show yourself. Do not try to make yourself palatable for everyone. Right. Because it just causes complications. Right. So the more you are you, the better. And I've already said that in this conversation. But, like, that's the reason why.

Kellee Wynne [00:53:25]:
Because no one wants an awkward conversation in the middle of teaching, in the middle of a class. That's what happened.

Becky Joan Springer [00:53:32]:
And it ended up being fine. And. But exactly like I. No one wants that.

Kellee Wynne [00:53:37]:
Right, exactly. Which is why you have to come out over and over and over again on social media. It's like, I think that we. Maybe we. My dream for society is that we can just assume everybody's out until you say you're in.

Becky Joan Springer [00:53:52]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly like that. There's no. And I think. I think a lot more folks are understanding that there's a bigger plurality of gender and sexuality. A lot of folks I look at, even the Brandy Carlo community. I met a lot of folks who are exploring their sexuality later in life and are understanding that there's just not more gay people now. There's not more trans people now. It's that we have more people that have understanding and are offering that.

Becky Joan Springer [00:54:27]:
That space and exception and loving space and acceptability. That they feel safer that they can be their authentic self and not be closeted. And so I think.

Kellee Wynne [00:54:39]:
Wonderful.

Becky Joan Springer [00:54:40]:
I think there's a need and a want for that as well, to have more spaces be their whole selves.

Kellee Wynne [00:54:46]:
Okay. So we don't have to spend the whole time talking about political. That's not even political. It's life. I don't like calling it politics. We don't have to spend the whole time talking about the queer community. Although I am very glad that you're here to speak about that. Let's talk about your passion for art and how it saved you.

Kellee Wynne [00:55:07]:
Let's talk about why this was the thing. Because for not. It's not for everyone. For some, like you said, it's music or it's sports or it's whatever. But how did this. How did, like, you. That sounds like such a hard time to go through, not. Not being able to have a child like you wanted to and then finding out you had uterine cancer.

Kellee Wynne [00:55:29]:
I'm assuming everything's fine now.

Becky Joan Springer [00:55:32]:
It is. Yeah. Yeah. But it required a hysterectomy. That's a whole nother journey. And we'd already. That's whole discussion. But.

Becky Joan Springer [00:55:40]:
So I was really in a low space and I was. And I was miserable at my job and I needed some kind of outlet. And I. I don't even know what. What prompted. I think I just. I literally, when I say I took a break from, like, anything artistic, I took a break. Like, I didn't do anything.

Becky Joan Springer [00:55:58]:
I didn't and then I slowly started experimenting with, like I said, scrapbooking. I got into quilting for a hot minute. And so I. It. I really wanted to paint, though. I wanted to paint again. I hadn't painted in two decades. And then.

Becky Joan Springer [00:56:16]:
And I showed up in these classes and I showed up how I had showed up in. At work and in my, like, I know in my everyday life, I had become so type A perfectionist. So I showed up to classrooms. The way that I was showing up into my everyday world, like, that's how I was showing up to the. To a painting. And I. So I was really rigid. I was so scared.

Becky Joan Springer [00:56:41]:
I really wanted to create the perfect painting. And so when I took an intuitive painting workshop and when I started taking abstract art, it was really challenging for me. So I loved the challenge. But it was also really freeing and liberating and there's a reason I was drawn to it. I tried meditation as well like this around the time I was getting into yoga and meditation. And at the time I struggled the most in yoga was in the Shavasana, when it was like when you quiet your mind. So it's so funny that I teach this now. I couldn't quiet my mind.

Becky Joan Springer [00:57:14]:
It was so hard. But it was also what I was drawn to for a reason. Same so totally. I was so disembodied. I didn't know what the hell flow state meant. I didn't know how to get out of my head. And it was so powerful. When I finally could do that and when I could, there was no other place.

Becky Joan Springer [00:57:34]:
I just remember the, like, joy of discovering that I could, like, dance and listen to music and just play and make ugly paintings. And it was so. It was just the most beautiful, gorgeous, like, time of, like, discovering that type of art. And the really. I keep using the word liberating, but that really is what it felt like.

Kellee Wynne [00:57:58]:
Yeah, absolutely. To go from strict rules of campus life, right, of. Of managing other people to only you and the canvas and the paint ain't only you. It's just you and the connection to whatever it is that you're channeling in at that moment. And I don't think that I've ever experienced anything quite like it. When you get. And it's only I, you know, we're. We are our own best enemies.

Kellee Wynne [00:58:32]:
We're our own worst enemies. Is I haven't allowed myself to get into that flow state often, but when I have, the few times I have, there is. Is. There is no Shavasana that can compare to it Is There.

Becky Joan Springer [00:58:45]:
Exactly. Kelly, we need to get you more in the flow state.

Kellee Wynne [00:58:47]:
I know we do. I. I'm. I'm. I'm working on it. I got a therapist, so I think with therapy, I might be able to break through some of my problems. Yeah.

Becky Joan Springer [00:59:00]:
And that's one of the things I was doing, was also therapy. And I remember talking to a therapist, and I was like, I can't meditate. And he. I remember my therapist at the time was like, like, this is your meditation. And I was like, oh, my God. It was like a light bulb. I was like, oh, wait, you're right. And he was like, meditation doesn't have to look like sitting in a room and, like, quiet.

Becky Joan Springer [00:59:19]:
Like in quiet. Like, no, your meditation looks like dancing and painting and playing on a canvas for hours at a time and losing yourself and giving yourself that gift and that freedom. And I was like, oh, my God, this is.

Kellee Wynne [00:59:32]:
You're right, because you no longer have to be in the thinking space state.

Becky Joan Springer [00:59:35]:
Totally. And when you're creating, you're like. It's harder to.

Kellee Wynne [00:59:38]:
It's.

Becky Joan Springer [00:59:39]:
You're not stressed out around unless it. Unless you're really letting yourself in to the inner critic and you're getting too up on them. That's why I love intuitive painting, is because I'm just. I'm listening and I'm responding to paint on the canvas. I'm realizing that this is just cloth and dirt. And none of this is precious. None of this. It needs to be.

Becky Joan Springer [01:00:01]:
It can be as ugly and as playful. And I. I've read a lot lately about how before you're eight years old, like, the way children show up at canvases and the way that children create, they don't worry about that at all. And then you get to this. It's average around like 8 to 10, where you start caring about what other people think. And my goal is really to get back to that state where you don't give a shit what anyone else thinks doing.

Kellee Wynne [01:00:28]:
And I'm assuming that's what you try to work through in your workshops.

Becky Joan Springer [01:00:33]:
Yes.

Kellee Wynne [01:00:33]:
In your retreats.

Becky Joan Springer [01:00:35]:
And that's so what I was doing on my own. And then that's what I really wanted to bring to other people, because I realize a lot of people, especially I will get people who are my age or older who haven't taken the time for themselves, and they're so in that busy to do that. They're in their own to do lists, and they're struggling, and so giving them, even if they just do it like once a year. But really giving the time and space to show up and have that. So that's what I did for myself when I was really struggling. And it became. It was really healing for me because I was. I was.

Becky Joan Springer [01:01:12]:
I mean it when I say it, like, saved my life. It really. I feel like it really did. It changed the whole trajectory of my life, for sure. But it was. I was going through so much turmoil, and it was so freeing and to give myself that time in that space. And so I think that's the beauty

Kellee Wynne [01:01:32]:
also of being an art teacher or an artist who teaches is usually what I say, because I don't want to mistake an art teacher from, like, school, because we are creating our own. Our own educational space. But a teaching artist is that you end up with people who tell you that that was their breakthrough, something that you created for them. The course, the workshop, that moment, that light bulb that went on for them. And I'm. You know, I haven't been teaching art as much lately. I. I'd like to do it again, but I justify not being there to give that light bulb bulb by saying, I'm sending out my.

Kellee Wynne [01:02:15]:
You are?

Becky Joan Springer [01:02:16]:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne [01:02:17]:
Through me, I'm sending out all these other artists who teach. And so it's that. That's the reason when you get that, it's not, we need money to survive. But when you get that email or you get that letter in the mail or whatever, someone's saying, like, this meant everything to me. That's why we do it.

Becky Joan Springer [01:02:37]:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne [01:02:38]:
Right. Right.

Becky Joan Springer [01:02:38]:
Yeah. Yeah, totally. And it's really. It's powerful then to see other people keep painting and keep. That's what you're doing is you're disseminating it into the world through others. And so we're. It's creating this ripple. And again, we need it now more than ever.

Becky Joan Springer [01:02:54]:
There's all this. There's so much fear and there's so much uncertainty. And so that's when we. That's when we return back to art. And so that's where I was. I was in a really scary low space, and I needed it now more than ever then, and I need it now again. And that's what. Sometimes I'm like, is this frivolous? I know it's not, but there's times when I'm like, there's so much happening and I can get in such despair.

Becky Joan Springer [01:03:20]:
And returning to art reminds me of, like, creating joy, cultivating beauty. Like, I. And I bring it to others. And really, it's the community. It's creating the community and the Connection around it. Anytime it's easy for me to get in my house and be like stuck in that space. And anytime I'm connecting with people. And that is why I need the retreats as well, because it's when I feel the most alive.

Becky Joan Springer [01:03:46]:
It's when I see people be most. The most connected. It's when I if. And the more we hold on to that and don't get siloed in our.

Kellee Wynne [01:03:53]:
Yeah, it's when we see goodness.

Becky Joan Springer [01:03:57]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Kellee Wynne [01:03:58]:
There's still like this. Oh, wait, that's right. We're a community. We're in this together and we care about each other. And. And you. You know, we can get some of that from the way we connect, like this podcast or getting on a zoom call, but it's in person where you can actually feel the energy of the people you're with. It's really lovely.

Kellee Wynne [01:04:18]:
And that's the gift I gave myself last year. And everyone who's listening to the podcast last year and this year is probably tired of me saying, but I'm having Colleen Atara on the podcast so you can hear it from her. But going to her workshops did that for me, gave me that space where I felt the connection. I felt in. In that brief moment in time, whole again, you know, and that's the whole point why I continue to encourage artists who have a desire to teach to do it, to create that space also for other people. It's. I mean, like, there. I don't know how to say it, but there's just nothing else quite like.

Kellee Wynne [01:04:58]:
Like it.

Becky Joan Springer [01:04:59]:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne [01:04:59]:
You know, I think that's why it's

Becky Joan Springer [01:05:01]:
so hard for me to put into words sometimes what happens at a retreat after, like during the retreat and to describe it. Because if there's really something in the doing and the showing up that is indescribable. Yeah.

Kellee Wynne [01:05:15]:
So what's on the horizon? Besides a beautiful rebrand, which I'll be very much looking forward to seeing. I hope it's very colorful.

Becky Joan Springer [01:05:21]:
It's starting already. I've already started integrating my new logo and all that. So the rebrand and the website is really been so much work and time consuming that I like, I really. But I'm so excited about it and it's beautiful. So my new website should launch in May or June and then the online workshop. So that's going to be. I'm waiting to get all of that done and all that built out and then starting to connect, find more ways to connect online. And I have lots of ideas and workshops bubbling and then I'm announcing.

Becky Joan Springer [01:05:53]:
I'll be announcing more. I have a new exciting workshop location for 27 and 20 and then I'm going to keep. I'm obsessed with Italy. I want to keep teaching there every year. And then.

Kellee Wynne [01:06:07]:
So hint, hint, everyone, I will give you a sign up for her to make sure you're on the list because when she announces it, you're going to want to be the first to sign up and snag a spot at a retreat.

Becky Joan Springer [01:06:20]:
Yeah. So I'm going to keep doing those. I'll do a few of those a year. And then I have a solo show coming up. So I'm still showing and doing art. So I have a solo show coming up in May. So I have lots of stuff going on to keep me painting and teaching and.

Kellee Wynne [01:06:40]:
Yeah, how exciting. All right, well, I am going to make sure that everyone has your contact because I imagine your retreats are probably the best there is out there. And I'm putting it on my bucket list now because I think that I need to meet you in person. Person. And you're gonna make me dance. Because I think I hate dancing. But I have a feeling if I was with you, I wouldn't hate you.

Becky Joan Springer [01:07:05]:
Dance. Yes.

Kellee Wynne [01:07:06]:
We do lots of let loose and paint again, so I'm glad we finally got a chance. So thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Becky Joan Springer [01:07:17]:
It was so lovely. Thank you.