Kellee Wynne:
Hi, Susan.

Susan Yeates:
Hello.

Kellee Wynne:
We just had to finally stop our chitchat and hit record. So here we are, ready to talk. Talk about. Honestly want to just chat about everything in the world. But for anyone who doesn't know, Susan Yates is in my remarkable league. She took Build It Remarkable last year, but she's also somebody that I really love talking to. So I think you're going to enjoy this conversation.

Susan Yeates:
Oh, thank you very much, Kelly. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to this and thank you for inviting me on the podcast. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, yeah.

Kellee Wynne:
Well, last time for anyone wants to go back to one of the roundtables, she was on that. But I wanted to have like our own heart to heart conversation.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah, looking forward to it.

Kellee Wynne:
All right, so what is inspiring you right now?

Susan Yeates:
Oh, what a great question. Well, at the moment I am being very inspired by my garden and by plants and by nature. It's one thing that I absolutely love at this time of year. I'm not inspired by the heat here in the uk. I'm not a person that is inspired by hot weather.

Kellee Wynne:
I don't like hot weather either. We're on the same. And I thought it was supposed to stay cool in England. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Things are changing, but things are changing.

Susan Yeates:
So my garden by plants, by drawing plants. And I am always constantly inspired by the beautiful people that I get to teach in my membership, which is called Inspire, which is about inspiring people. But one of the amazing things is I find that I get inspired right back every time I teach something. So for example, this month we're talking about summer is our theme and we have been drawing sunflowers and doing cyanotype prints and sun related things. Just seeing people take my little ideas, which are like a starting point for sketching, and then they run with them and then they do new things with it and then someone else comments and then I look at it and see all this stuff that's been created. It gives me more ideas and I get inspired right back. And I think that's one of the wonderful things about being a teacher. And you probably know from yourself that when you see people take like a germ of an idea that you've come up with and you've sort of started them on a journey and then you see them grow.

Susan Yeates:
It's hugely inspiring. It's like this wonderful spiral of joy that you kind of. It all gets better and better and more creative and more inspiring. So, yeah, I'm absolutely inspired by my students at the moment as well as by. As well as by plants.

Kellee Wynne:
Yes. I mean, I would say that I learned, probably learn more from my students than they learned from me. Just watching them, like you said, come up with crazy cool new ideas and I'm like, I wish I had thought of that. But it's just so much fun and I think there's just so much joy in being able to guide people into their joyful space. Yeah, now you're gonna, you're gonna get to do that in person. And boy, am I jealous you're going to Tuscany.

Susan Yeates:
I am indeed. Yeah. Not long to go. In about five, six weeks, I'm hosting a week long sketching retreat in Tuscany with a very good friend of mine called Missy, who's another artist. So we're jointly running the retreat and we're very blessed because it sold out within literally a couple of weeks of releasing the retreat. So there's obviously a demand for experiences like this where you can enjoy a beautiful location and be. I mean, they're going to get wonderful food and beautiful scenery, a lovely villa that we're staying in, but we're going to be sketching, painting, bit of mixed media work, making our own inks, walking, visiting Florence and just enjoying the experience of creativity and being inspired by a location in person. Because I think there's just something really magical about doing something like together in community, in a group.

Susan Yeates:
And my background, my first foray into this business of art education was teaching faculty face to face workshops. I'd finished university, you know, got spat out with an art degree and went, oh, what am I gonna do? So I went into teaching, I taught adult art classes and I've done that for over 20 years now. I absolutely love teaching grown ups and I never think of it as teaching. It's sharing ideas, it's sharing our love of creativity and art. And all I'm doing is just facilitating having fun with art materials. And like you say, for me it's joyful and hopefully for everyone else it's joyful. And I just love that like environment, like being able to create that nurturing environment where everyone's just enjoying the moment, sketching, playing. So to come full circle, to come back to teaching in person again after quite a long break from teaching in person.

Susan Yeates:
And Covid didn't help with that, not being able to see anybody. It's really lovely to be back in person and really sharing face to face through retreats and experiences like that.

Kellee Wynne:
There's an energy that can't be replaced with online.

Susan Yeates:
And I'm very fortunate and I love, I've made so many great Friends, connections, business contacts, students through teaching online. Like, I couldn't run my business without the Internet, without all these wonderful tools that didn't exist 20 years ago or even 10 years ago, these things didn't exist. So I'm really grateful for the fact that there is access to apps and technology and relatively easy to use systems. I'm not like, I'm competent on it. I wouldn't say I'm the best at it, but the fact that I can run an entire business online, teaching and sharing my love of art and connecting with people all across the world. Like, my. My furthest students from me in the UK are over in Australia and they follow, you know, my membership. The fact that I have access to such a diverse range of people is amazing.

Susan Yeates:
I'm not just teaching those in my local location. So I'm so grateful for that access to technology. But what I'm really enjoying at the moment is the blend of both the. The wider connection online, but then also that, like, deeper connection in small groups, face to face. It's really wonderful.

Kellee Wynne:
I do remember early on I was recording videos and my mom was kind of just auditing them, not editing, but just like watching through for any, like, either mistakes or things that weren't clear. And she's like, well, when you got to the part about mixing with a palette knife, you didn't teach us how to mix with a palette knife. I'm like, mom, it's like a palette knife is like a fork. You just know how to use it. But I was so wrong how of me as a teacher to just assume people understood that. Because when I went and taught in person, I watched them using a palette knife, stirring it like as if it was a teaspoon rather than kind of the mashing and blending on the, on the flat part of it. They were stirring it and I'm like, oh, wait, look, when we teach in person, we really understand what the student's thinking, how they're reacting, what they need to know more of. And in fact, that's probably why I encourage people who are new to this business to start with a beta test and run it live, because then your students can give you live feedback in real time of, okay, wait, I'm stuck with this.

Kellee Wynne:
That way you have a chance to really understand. So if you have never taught live in person, either live online or in person, I. I really encourage you. I know there's a lot of shy people out there, but, you know, I have just so many great experiences. The people in our community are generous and tolerant well, mostly tolerant and kind and will and will be patient with you when you make a mistake, so.

Susan Yeates:
Oh, gosh, absolutely. And I can, yeah, I can remember the first time I ever taught. I was in my early 20s and I'm introvert shy, just finished university. Absolutely petrified at the thought of being in a room with 16 ladies that were all older than me, that were all know, experienced people. I was petrified. So I necked a glass of wine. I was so nervous. I was like, I have to do something.

Susan Yeates:
I'm. I was just so. But I absolutely am so grateful for that 10 years of teaching face to face because certainly I would, I like you. I would advise anybody that teaches online, that's never taught before, like face to face, to do some face to face teaching. Because when you're teaching online and you're like pre recording, not necessarily live vibes, pre recording, you have to answer all the questions that students might come up with as you're teaching because the students aren't there to ask. And I think I gained so much experience teaching face to face for 10 years doing like day workshops, long courses. All the questions that came up, like, I banked that information. Banked that information.

Susan Yeates:
And that was partly the reason I wrote my first book was that I've got all this information that I've learned over 10 years. I need it in a form I can give to people. So my first book came out Lining Learning Linocut. But that's the information I teach when I do pre recorded courses. I kind of imagine somebody has no knowledge. And if I was teaching somebody with no knowledge, what are the questions they're going to ask me? Like, what does a soft pencil mean? Like if I just go, oh, a B pencil, A soft pencil. Like, not everyone knows what that means or why they should use it. You have to kind of go back a few steps and explain those things as you're teaching.

Susan Yeates:
So that knowledge and that connection with people and the questions they ask and also how people's brains work differently, they learn in different ways. Yeah, some people need to be shown, some people need to experience it. Some people need clear verbal instructions. So you've got to almost like do all of it as you're teaching.

Kellee Wynne:
Even the written instructions.

Susan Yeates:
Absolutely. Yeah. So all my tutorials, I have pictures, written instructions, video. I cover all bases.

Kellee Wynne:
What I think is really cool though is that technology's come far enough along because I remember in the early days people would like, can't you have cap, you know, captioning or transcripts or something? But it would. It would literally mean that I would have to write it all out because there were very few automated. Now the. The system that I host everything on, Simplero I. It just automatically does it for everything. So those kinds of details are easier for those who need visual cues or the highlights of everything.

Susan Yeates:
Absolutely. And I have some students that absolutely need and want captions so they can read the instructions because they can't necessarily hear very well, and others that cannot have captions because it distracts them from what is being shown on the video. So you. You kind of need to cater to both in. In some ways and to have the option.

Kellee Wynne:
So nice we can now, though. It's just so nice that we can. So many options for learning. So, like, you were talking about how easy it is now to get going because the, the programs, the software, the companies, what they've designed for us. I think my first online art course, I was investigating everything in 2017, and there were so few options and the abilities of what they could do were so limited. And I had a lot of people are like, you should just create your own WordPress site. And I'm like, that sounds very challenging. No, thank you.

Susan Yeates:
That's exactly what I did in 2017. I had a WordPress site and I had to. Oh, my gosh, the, like, I had to learn a bit of coding and like, oh, it was so hard work and it was so glitchy and I was like, oh, I'm in a really. I don't enjoy this. This is not my skill set. Like, I just want to teach. I just want to teach.

Kellee Wynne:
And now we have all these all in one software products and we can record with our phones, we can. Like, there's so many things that reduce that barrier to being a teacher. What's funny is, is I don't know if you were like this, but I hesitated for, like, I knew more than a year before I finally started teaching, maybe two years that I wanted to do it, but I was so caught up in the technology and how to run it that I didn't realize that it was all the other things that were going to be so much more work, like learning how to market it, learning how to sell it, learning how to reach people with social media, et cetera, et cetera. I promise you, everyone listening, that technology is not the problem that you're going to have. That's like, within a couple of days, you'll have it all figured out. Community also gives generously with information now.

Susan Yeates:
So absolutely, you can find so much information, which I think sometimes Is the, is the barrier to starting is there is much information and the best camera for this and the best camera for that and the sound and whereas I still, for probably 80% of the stuff that I record, I still use my iPhone. Like because it's just the easiest. It focuses correctly. I can get my videos to my computer. And I'm like, you know what? If I use my iPhone and it means it gets done and it gets done quickly, I will use my iPhone also.

Kellee Wynne:
I think that the pictures turn out great.

Susan Yeates:
So good. Like technology is so good now, like iPhone. The quality on cameras is ridiculously good compared to how it used to be. So. Yeah.

Kellee Wynne:
And you want to know my little secret is at first I just didn't the. The. The technology or the software for editing. I'm like, I just don't want to have to deal with that too. So my son was doing all my editing and with a Adobe Premiere Pro or whatever and eventually he was like, mom, I'm done working for you. Thanks, bye. You have to do it yourself. This is not for me.

Kellee Wynne:
And I get it. He did it for like four years. It was so nice having his help.

Susan Yeates:
Right.

Kellee Wynne:
And I just realized by the time that he said he was done and I was looking at editing, I just would record on my phone and then use a simple like cap cut or in shot to edit it. And I'm like, oh, this is so easy.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah, yeah, you can do fast. You can. And like I, I used to do all my editing myself for quite a few years. Only the last couple of years. I've got a lady that does it for me now. But I would use imovie on my computer and I would pop it and tail it, put a picture, a little bit of music, just let the video run. And like often I wouldn't cut out where I was going. Like any.

Kellee Wynne:
I don't ever cut out natural language. No.

Susan Yeates:
Because if I was in a class teaching face to face with people, I would not speak perfectly. I would mess my words up, you know? Yeah, that's part of being human. And people want to be taught by other humans. Not like these professional shiny like it.

Kellee Wynne:
You.

Susan Yeates:
You still need that human connection. And I think capturing some of that bits where. Oh, I'm just gonna go get my pencil. I left it over there. Or actually. Oh, my color doesn't really work. I'm going to mix this instead like where you're actually really experimenting and playing like. So for me it's all sketching and I'll be mixing a watercolor color If a color doesn't quite work right, I'm not going to edit that out and then just show the perfect color that I mixed.

Susan Yeates:
And aren't I like, it's. I want to show actually it's about experimenting and being messy and trying things out. And you know what? I did leave my pencil over there and I've got to go and get it. But you know, when you sit down to sketch, you might need to go get your pencil. That's. That's real life.

Kellee Wynne:
I think I, I agree with you. And after all of the times of making videos and people saying thank you so much for showing how you solve problems as you go or embracing the mistakes, then I see that, you know, the students then see that we're still just human, we're still learning. So then it's just making us more relatable. I agree. Like anyone who has really super polished videos, if that's the way you want to do it, congratulations to you. But I'm just encouraging those who are creating courses to allow the natural way in which you create to, to show. I will admit though, I do cut out any dead space. So if I was going to get a pencil, I would say, I need to get my pencil.

Kellee Wynne:
I would cut out the time I'm going to find it, which could be 30 seconds or more. And then I would put it back to, ah, here it is.

Susan Yeates:
So, yeah, I often my video and start again. I'll go stop, start and then just.

Kellee Wynne:
Yeah, so now I know I can just like cut out the dead time. Like gotta change the water or, you know, I'm spending forever working on something that I can't get or something repetitive like I gotta cut out a bunch of pieces, like I might speed that up or I might cut it and just show you the important parts because we don't need a lot of dead space. But while creating, I love to explain every step and what I'm thinking and why I'm putting something here, why I'm trying to solve this product. Like the color wasn't right. This is what we can do to correct it. Just like you said, I think that that makes a course so much better.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah. And it makes it really valuable to know what you're thinking as you go through things. And like you say, by explaining your thought process. Oh, I've tried that, but it didn't work. I think this is too big. I'm going to move this. So explaining that thought process really helps people understand that creating is a process. It's not just a, you know, Paint my numbers.

Susan Yeates:
It's not right or wrong. It's not black and white. It's, it's, it's a process of experimenting and making mistakes and exploring. And I think for people to see, that's really good. But yeah, again, like you, I love a time lapse. I speed things up. So I try and keep my videos to a point where they're sort of short and sharp, sort of 10 to 20 minutes. I don't generally run anything mostly under 15 minutes.

Susan Yeates:
So. So anything where I might be drawing, I would speed that up so they can see the drawing. And then afterwards I would go, oh, just so you know, I did this, that and the other. And so explaining. But you don't want people to sort of watch and be like, oh, she's still cutting out. Like it's right.

Kellee Wynne:
Like this part's gonna take me a half hour. But you don't wanna watch for a whole half hour.

Susan Yeates:
Exactly.

Kellee Wynne:
On that note, let's talk about how do we keep ourselves inspired and rejuvenated. I know that right before we hit record we were talking about how much we still need to go and participate as students ourselves, even though we are teachers. And yeah, I, I mean on the podcast I mentioned that I just got back from an in person event and I'm just like, my goal is as many as I can for the next year to just really get me back in the spirit of it. And it works like making it as a student. Taking a class as a student is so much fun.

Susan Yeates:
Oh, it's so much fun. I mean, I am a lifelong learner. I think if you teach, it's really important to learn as well and be a student. I think that just from the point of view of understanding what it is to be a student makes you a better teacher number one. But also it's just filling your cup. And I think as a creative, that is one of the most important things. And as a concept, I often talk about when I'm teaching, which I call pre charge before you recharge, which for me is about making sure that my cup is full, that I have enough energy to be able to teach, to create, to share, to run the business, to do the social media, to answer the emails. I need to be well rested, well charged, full of energy, rather than do all that and then completely deplete.

Susan Yeates:
So I call it like pre charging. So I do spend a lot of time. For example, I like to do yoga. I'm a yoga teacher, so I'm a qualified yoga teacher. So I do spend a Lot of time doing yoga and guided relaxations to make sure that I take time for myself, like in self care, physically and mentally. I spend a lot of time out in nature. So I think sometimes if I've been in my studio all day, I've been on Zoom, I've been recording videos to emails, creating reels, doing all the businessy stuff, which actually takes up probably more time than the creating. I make sure that I then spend some time either out walking or just I go in the garden, look at the flowers or I do a quick doodle of something out in the garden.

Susan Yeates:
But a lot of the time it's just, I go into the green stuff. I don't necessarily go with any intention of doing anything other than just seeing green stuff and walking about there and looking at, oh, that plant grew an inch. Or like whatever it might be.

Kellee Wynne:
It's inspiring though, to. For me, nature is the biggest inspiration, but it's not what I always create. But when I'm in nature, I'm noticing. Right. You have a time to not be inundated with information. The information you're getting is the slow, beautiful pace in which nature takes itself.

Susan Yeates:
Absolutely.

Kellee Wynne:
And so then I'm like, oh, look at that texture, look at how that shape works. Look at those colors and look at how they're combining together. Like today when I took a walk this morning with the dogs. I know, you're welcome, dogs. I finally got my butt off the couch. Usually make the kids walk them in the evening, but we were walking and I was like, there's these giant mushrooms and I'm like, the spots on them and the gold shape and I'm just like, so many cool things to see in everybody's gardens, fully blossoming. Like that's the kind of thing. I agree.

Kellee Wynne:
Sometimes we need that break to just be inspired again.

Susan Yeates:
Absolutely. I think creativity is, it's, it's a weird beast because it's so essential to us. And I think inherently humans are creative. We're born creatively. We see toddlers just going crazy with the crayons. They have no fear. They just draw what they want. Conceptual, realistic.

Susan Yeates:
They'll draw anything and have no fear about it. So I do think we're inherently creative. But creativity needs space to kind of grow. It needs space, it needs dead time. Like, I, I do feel you need to be bored at times. And my. Something that my mum always used to say to me as I was a kid was, if you're bored, it means you're boring.

Kellee Wynne:
But I think exactly what I said to My kids as they were growing up because there's just like take all the electronics away and there's still like millions of things you could do with your time or be interested in or have it captivated. But I understand what you're saying in the bored sense is, is allowing space.

Susan Yeates:
To just be, you need to get bored. Like we didn't have technology, social media when we were kids that we didn't really have computers till I was older. So we were just in the garden playing, making up games, creating tents out of our bed sheets and this was a shop and this was a bank. We were making up all these games and things. Like we, we had to be creative otherwise there was nothing to play. Like we weren't being, you know, entertained by like, like social media or games that just kind of guide you through. We have to do the thinking and the creative and I think that's still really important as grown ups and especially, you know, as business owners where you have got certain things you've got to do. I'm a mum, I've got a child I have to pick up from school and apparently it's the dumb thing to feed them as well and close them.

Susan Yeates:
Like you've got to do that every day. We have to feed every day they need food and so you've got to do all that stuff, which is all fantastic but you've got to do that to a schedule. But creativity needs space and yeah, you're right, that's what I mean by boredom. You need uninterrupted time. And so one of the things that I love to do is just, I just take myself to a cafe with nothing else than a sketchbook. I'll take myself to a garden and just take myself, I will take my phone so I can take nice photos, but I'll just take a sketchbook and no intention. Like I'm not, I'm not planning to go and sketch that specific thing or draw in watercolor. It'll just be, I'm just going and I'm just going to let myself wander and get a bit bored and maybe a bit lost and explore.

Susan Yeates:
And that's when I find sometimes those creative ideas just come when I'm specifically not doing anything in particular.

Kellee Wynne:
Yes.

Susan Yeates:
And I think that's really helpful, very.

Kellee Wynne:
Helpful other than walking in nature because I'm not going to surf social media while I'm hiking. I might pull it out for photos like you. But like I, you know, I don't even put music in to go hiking. I want it to just be the sound of nature.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne:
The other time that I get, quote, unquote, bored is I specifically will drive with no sound on in the car at all. And then I can just, like, process life thoughts, come up with new ideas, pay attention to what I'm seeing on the road. And, like, that's when, like, all kinds of stuff just comes to me. And I love that experience too. Yeah. We need a lot more unplanned space. We do.

Susan Yeates:
And I think that's why there's quite a lot of anxiety and inability to sleep. Like, you can't get to bed because of all those thoughts in your head. And I think that often comes because you've had no space in the day to allow those thoughts to just be. Because human brains are so clever. They're so amazing. There's stuff going on in our bodies all the time. Automatically we process thoughts. We can be driving, thinking, doing this.

Susan Yeates:
And I know as women, we multitask a lot. Like, I will be on the phone, cooking dinner, dealing with my daughter. You'll be doing like five things at once. Like, our brains are so clever. But it. They do need time to allow all these things to process. You've got to let these thoughts kind of go. And, you know, lots of people might meditate or specifically spend time on it, but a lot of the time it's just space.

Susan Yeates:
You just need space to allow these things to settle and process. And I think, like you, sometimes driving is when I have the best ideas. Like, it'll be, I'm in the shower or I'm driving or I just woke up. That's my best ideas come then.

Kellee Wynne:
Yes.

Susan Yeates:
Quiet spaces.

Kellee Wynne:
So you mentioned something there about meditation and yoga, and I know you're a yoga teacher. That's probably another really great space. When you're in your body, you're not, you know, you're focusing on the breath, the body. Not like letting your Supposedly not letting your mind wander too much. But mine never stops. It's like all the time.

Susan Yeates:
I think it's fairly normal. My brain will wander. Like, even if I'm teaching, I can be like, oh, I'm gonna have this for dinner. No, back to the present. Yeah, but I think that's part of the experience, is it? It allows you time for those thoughts to come and go. And whenever I'm teaching, I'm like, you think of these. Think of these thoughts as like clouds and they just pass through. Just allow them to come in and allow them to pass and beautiful.

Susan Yeates:
It's just a really lovely way of going. You Know you're not wrong. Your brain is really clever that it can have all these thoughts and we can't not have them. I just don't. Well, personally, I don't think. I can not think of things like, I think right. Our brains, especially if you're creative, you're constantly coming up with new ideas or trying to make new connections, but just letting those thoughts pass and giving them space and not actively thinking on them. I think that's really valuable.

Kellee Wynne:
Yeah. Or do you meditate?

Susan Yeates:
I do. Yeah, I do. Yeah, I sort of meditate. Yeah. So I do yoga meditate and I do quite a lot of guided relaxations and I'll teach, so a thing called yoga nitra, which is like yogic sleep. So it's a kind of guided meditation that you just listen to and it just allows you to get into that liminal space between awake and sleep. And that's often where like you kind of drift in and out. And like so many people have the best ideas when they just wake up from like, sleep.

Susan Yeates:
And like yoga nidra, like guided relaxation takes you into that slightly hypnotic state where you're not awake, you're not asleep, but you're just allowing the brain to settle in those connections to happen. So that's one of my favorite, favorite things.

Kellee Wynne:
I've never done yoga nidra. I've. I've been a participant of yoga on and off for quite a while. I think it's my favorite form, other than hiking, of ex. Exercise. But I also work on meditation and it is work because it doesn't come naturally, especially to an very highly active brain. But I like how you described it. Like the clouds come and go.

Kellee Wynne:
I also heard one of the meditation teachers I was talking to, he's like, well, it's like your kids all running around wild around you. You notice and then you let it go. You just let the thoughts pass. And once I got that, I was like, oh, it's not like empty your brain. It's. Don't attach yourself to any one thought. And that like changed everything for me.

Susan Yeates:
And just.

Kellee Wynne:
You're right. That's the time when ideas come. And not just ideas for creativity, but just everything in life. What's the next step to take? How to improve, you know, my business, how to find myself in a foreign country, vacationing, like all that kind of stuff, or just how to be in the moment and acceptance of what is with the world the way it is is right now.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I think recently the more I've been sort of teaching Art and spending more time talking to students and having experiences face to face. When I teach retreats, is. Is kind of realizing how many people use art as their meditation because. And their kind of relaxation, whatever word you want to call it, wellness, relaxation, joy. It's. For me, it's kind of almost the same thing. It's that opportunity to just sort of step away from commitments that thoughts, seriousness, routines, and just create.

Susan Yeates:
And I think like yoga provides you with a physical movement, but something for your brain to focus on. I think art and creativity does exactly the same thing. Because you're physically moving, you might be doing a repetitive movement. If you're drawing something or you're drawing a pattern or you're painting, you're kind of moving your body. But you've got to focus your eyes, you've got to concentrate. I mean, we all need to breathe regardless. But you can't be. I can't be stressed and do art.

Susan Yeates:
Like, it's just those two things for me don't go together. Like, I need to kind of get in the zone, chill out. Like, I'll often listen to music, I'll have a, you know, a nice coffee or have a podcast on, and just. You kind of get in this lovely flow state. And it's. I. I feel that is quite meditative. And I think recently, over the last year, I've realized that's what art is for me.

Susan Yeates:
And that's the kind of style of teaching that I have, is that I want to make sure that people are enjoying art and sketching and creativity for their own wellness, for fun, for relaxation, as their me time. Then let's switch off and just have a bit of time for themselves. And I think sketching and art provides that meditative. Like, I don't know what it is about creating. Even if you're like you're knitting or crocheting, there's a repetitive action, there's a, you've got to concentrate. You're all, you're all encompassed and it just gives you a focus. But yet your brain can kind of switch off and process those crazy brain thoughts, those chattering monkeys that are having a conversation in the back of your brain.

Kellee Wynne:
Yeah. And one of the most important things, especially as women like you pointed out, we always have so much going on. It's giving ourselves the permission.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne:
Like you said, filling up your cup, it's essential. If you're not doing that, then how are you going to keep moving forward in life or as a teacher, especially for us who now have these creative educational businesses, it's like we. I think one of the reasons I burnt out, well, it was a slow burn, to be honest. Last year may have been a challenge, but it was coming long before that is I had stopped. Stopped giving myself the time for that flow state, for that meditative process, for the wellness that comes with creativity. And it just was something that I was a have to do or have to do all the other things. I have to get the social media done. I have to build another sales page.

Kellee Wynne:
Look, I get it because running your own business is no joke, but if you don't get done, it's got to get done. But always say, I don't deserve to make art. If you put off making art because you have all this other stuff to do and you. And you think you don't deserve to have the time to make art, then quickly it erodes your joy, it erodes your ability to be a good teacher. It takes away, like the purpose and why we did this in the first place.

Susan Yeates:
Absolutely. And hearing you just say that makes me feel so sad. Like when you say that like, you're not, you don't deserve to create. I'm just like, no, I know to create. It's just, it's almost like, you know when you go on planes and they say, like, put your own air mask on first or your own life jacket on first before you put something on someone else. I see it as essential as that. Like, it's like putting your own life jacket on first. You can't save anyone else if you can't save yourself.

Susan Yeates:
And I know that sounds massively dramatic.

Kellee Wynne:
Well, you can't, you can't fill people up from an empty cup.

Susan Yeates:
You can't. Right. If you're not. And that's, I suppose the whole, the pre charge, they're like making sure that your cup is full, that you're full of energy. You know, you don't have to be brimming full of it and like, you know, dancing around the room, but, you know, you've just got to be at a point where you're like, yeah, no, I'm good. I'm inspired. I've got ideas, I've got energy, I'm ready to share. I'm ready to inspire others, connect with others, and it comes from such a healthier place.

Susan Yeates:
Right.

Kellee Wynne:
Well, you'll be happy to know I am no longer denying myself creativity. Not at all. It's like all flowing back and I'm like, oh, that's right. And I can do it for me right now because I'm not Teaching any new classes? Well, there might be one this fall, but that'll be a surprise.

Susan Yeates:
I mean, I would absolutely agree with you. And I'd say this to anybody listening to anyone teaching. It's really important to do stuff for you that's not just all for teaching. I think you really like if you are creative and you're then going on to teach or share or whatever it is that you're. However you're delivering your. Even if you're selling your work, it doesn't really sort of matter how it is you're running your business. I think you still need that, like, unplugged time for you, that play time to just create when no one's watching. Like, what would you create if no one's watching? Like that.

Susan Yeates:
That, I think is really important.

Kellee Wynne:
What would you create if no one's watching? That's a great way to think about it. And then choose to not share it. Choose to not, not have it. You know, like, if you. If there were so many years where I'm like, this is going to look great on Instagram, and now I'm like, nobody knows what I'm doing, so it's fun for me. Right?

Susan Yeates:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne:
I mean, we have to have a balance because marketing is our job. It's like, I would say out of a business, it's probably 75% of the business is marketing. Right. But that other. That other time, like you said, I just love this conversation so much because it's right where I am right now as a teacher and as a student. But I wanted to point out that you've made a little shift along the way. You've been. You've been running Inspire, which is your membership online, since COVID days.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah. It's been going five years, which is crazy. It still feels my like, new baby. But it's, you know, it's beyond the toddler years now. Inspires. Five inspires.

Kellee Wynne:
And I just wanted to talk a little bit first about the fact that you are making tiny pivots. I wouldn't say these are big pivots, but tiny but very important pivots in your business, which is that you're still teaching sketching, but you really want to infuse more of yourself in it. And as we've been discussing now for quite some time, in this conversation, you love nature, you love being mindful, and you're bringing that more into your program, and I love that. And I love that. You know, at first you were like, I'm not sure if people are going to be receptive to this, but they've been very receptive.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah. And it's. It's strange because I think the. I think a lot of it has been that. I think over the years I've been, oh, I should do this. This is what people that teach art online do. And I've compartmentalized things. I do yoga and sometimes I teach.

Susan Yeates:
So that's that part of my life. I like my garden. I do gardening, and I'm doing a little horticulture course. That's great. That's another part of my life. And then I teach art, and none of them have talked to each other, but at the end of the day, I'm still one human that does these things. And I think humans are complex. They have different interests.

Susan Yeates:
And so, yeah, over the last year, I think it's more that I've identified. I suppose the way that I teach is a mindful way of teaching. I teach sketching and art for relaxation. I'm not. I don't teach courses to get people to become professional artists and display their work in galleries. I don't teach that side of things. I don't teach oil painting, for example. Everything is work on paper.

Susan Yeates:
Mostly sketchbooks, very portable. But it's all about just enjoying creativity. And I. I teach a lot of people who were told as young people they couldn't do art, they weren't good at art. They're. Oh, they don't know how to start. And like, all of this stuff is, you know, and everyone deserves to create art, and everyone can. If you can hold a pencil, you can draw.

Susan Yeates:
You don't need to draw a straight line. You don't need to draw realistically. None of that's important.

Kellee Wynne:
Isn't that a big line that we've been fed the whole society, Oh, I can't even draw a straight line. I'm like, great, then draw a curved line.

Susan Yeates:
It does not matter what benefit to be a ruler. Like, it makes no difference.

Kellee Wynne:
Beings by nature.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah, we all.

Kellee Wynne:
I love that you're infusing more of yourself into what you do. And I think that that was probably something I struggled with, that I was compartmentalizing as well. And I wanted to be able to bring all the pieces of me together in what I do. And I think that's when we enjoy the work a lot more as teachers, coaches and guides. It's like bring more of who you are into what you do. And I see a few artists that are really well known that do this so beautifully. And that's when it's like this light bulb went off, especially as I'm now teaching teachers how to run business. I don't exactly teach you how to map out your course necessarily.

Kellee Wynne:
I want to help people with, you know, being able to articulate what they do and market what they do. Right. And get clarity on what makes a good offer. But now I'm like, really helping. My goal is to help people when they decide on a niche, if you will, which a lot of people want to resist. Put all of you in it and design your own thing. Like, that's the beauty of it. You can.

Kellee Wynne:
Nature sketching program.

Susan Yeates:
Right. And I absolutely agree because I think this is what I have realized over the last, last, let's say, I think year probably I've been working with you doing build it remarkable in the league. That's. And it's weird because for me, it feels like I've broadened. Like I've. I'm doing more things, I'm encompassing more things, but it means I'm encompassing more of me. But actually I'm niching down because I'm not doing all the sketching in the world. What I am doing is it's.

Susan Yeates:
It's mindful sketching. So it's sketching for enjoyment, joy and creativity's sake for some sketching sake. But then I really have this interest in nature and sustainability and looking after our planet. So actually that's niching down more. So I'm niching. But for me, it feels like I'm expanding. Yeah. Because I'm actually able to talk about the fact that I am a yoga teacher.

Susan Yeates:
I don't hide it. And. And that feels easier. And that's been quite a revelation. And I think in my recent, my online retreat that I taught Inspired by Nature, when I shared guide relaxations for the first time, I was petrified about doing this. I was like, oh, I'm stepping way out of my comfort zone. Although I've taught it for years and I've got qualifications in it, and I've taught it face to face. And I know it's so valuable, but to teach it within my art business felt quite a big step sharing this different side of me.

Susan Yeates:
Vulnerable, really vulnerable. And actually that was the part that people commented the most on that they enjoyed that having guided relaxations combined with sketching nature. They were like, wow, this is a whole different experience because it's more multisensory, it's more considered, it's more meaningful, and that's been really lovely. So that's definitely something that you've helped me shape over the last year and kind of realize that. Just be more. Be more me. Yeah.

Kellee Wynne:
Be more you.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah. Which I was like, everybody wants more me in their life.

Kellee Wynne:
And like you said, in one way it's kind of niching down, but in another way it broadens it. Well, you get to broaden yourself, but now you also have an ability to find the people more clearly. Like you. You can talk to the nature lovers, you can talk to the mindful yoga people and bring them into your world of sketching. And. And it's like, it's a beautiful harmony where. Where you're focused, but it's like an all encompassing focus. So I don't want anyone to ever be afraid of a niche.

Susan Yeates:
No.

Kellee Wynne:
The truth is, is you get to put all of you into what you're doing.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah. And I think one of. One of the things that I kind of realized over the years of teaching and because I've been doing this for like 20 years now and I've been teaching online for like eight, is the things that sometimes come the easiest are actually the things that I should be doing and I'm good at and they work the best. But part of me is like, no, it should be hard work. You should work hard to earn that money. But actually, no, it's the things that you find, like, things I find easy. I'm like, well, there's no value in that because I find that really easy. Everyone else will find that easy.

Susan Yeates:
And actually, no, that's the value of the teaching or your gift is. Is the thing that you find easy and that you want to share with the world. And I think the other thing that I've learned over the years is I've learned who my audience is and I've got to know them really well. I'll have conversations. And I've got a friend, a really good friend of mine now who I met through she did my sketchbook challenge. She then came and joined the Inspire membership. We've got to know each other for our Facebook group and now we're friends in person and our daughters have met and we've been sketching together. And it's like, I've made this beautiful friendship because I know she's also a plant nut.

Susan Yeates:
And we have this interest and it's like, actually, a lot of my people that I know are into their gardens and like, they'll often tell summer, oh, I can't sketch this summer. I'm in my garden and I'm like, just take your sketchbook, you'll be fine.

Kellee Wynne:
Yes, take It. It doesn't have to be perfect. Put a little dirt on it, it's fine.

Susan Yeates:
It's all good. And I think getting to know your. Your people is. Is a. Is a huge part of the process of running a business and teaching. And I think one of the most joyful things is getting to know that community. It's been like a benefit for me that I never thought I'd have. I didn't set out to teach art to make friends, but I've actually come out with some really great friends.

Kellee Wynne:
Exactly.

Susan Yeates:
Really, really lovely.

Kellee Wynne:
I think in all the time I've been doing this, I may have come across less than what I can count on, one who were not kind. I think this community is exceptional. Yeah, no, it really is.

Susan Yeates:
It really is. And I think even, like, just knowing other sort of teachers and getting to know, you know, other members of the league, other people in Build It Remarkable. Like, and any other courses that I've done and teachers that I've come across or like, artists that I've found on Instagram, I'm like, oh, your work's really cool. I love what you're doing. Like, everyone's really lovely. It's. It's a really lovely industry. Like, everyone's here creating art and enjoying it.

Susan Yeates:
And I think I've only generally had very good experiences with everybody I've come across.

Kellee Wynne:
I know. We love you, Community. That's what we're saying.

Susan Yeates:
Community.

Kellee Wynne:
You. You've defined a niche and narrowed down. But I want to talk about the fact that you also made a big change last year after joining Build It. Remarkable. And that was all roads lead to your membership and you stopped doing a lot of the things that didn't help grow the membership. And it's turned out to be one of the best things that you've done. Do you want to talk a little bit about that experience?

Susan Yeates:
Absolutely. Yeah. That was a big shift last year, and I think when I set the membership up, I knew I wanted to do it because it really suits me how I work. It gives me the opportunity to share crazy ideas every month and just. And find a community and build a community and facilitate a community. So I knew the membership was something I wanted to do. I've loved it. It's probably the only thing I've kept going consistently for five years is the membership.

Susan Yeates:
And I think after I'm sort of discussing about all the things I do, and absolutely, I have bright shiny object syndrome, I'll be like, oh, I need to do this. Oh, I need to do that. Oh, Let me do this, let me launch this, let me try this. But actually just making that decision that inspire is what I love. It's the core of the business. It's the thing that I enjoy creating tutorials for connecting with people. And to make that the one thing that everything leads to, whether I have a. Like a free ebook explaining something, whether I run a.

Susan Yeates:
My Sketchbook challenge every year, whether I do retreats, if everything then eventually points to inspire, and that's the core of my business, it's just kind of worked. And when I made that shift, which was towards the end of last year, and then I had my big sketchbook challenge at the beginning of the year and I cut a lot of things out, I paused a lot of things, I retired a lot of courses and I just decided I'm just going to stop this, stop this, stop this. And everything that I offer within my business. So my challenges, my online retreats, my mini courses, my sketching courses, they all point to. This has been great. Come and join the membership, like, because it's. And it basically in kind of added another 50% members to the membership when I opened it in January this year. So it grew it quite a lot, which is really important.

Kellee Wynne:
That launch was exceptional because you made a choice to make it a paid event where it had been free all along.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne:
And you had a lot of people join. How many again? Was it like seven or 800?

Susan Yeates:
Seven or 800 people joined. Yeah. And paid to do the challenge. Yeah.

Kellee Wynne:
And they were invested. They were, they were really involved. And the conversion rates were wonderful. And yes, you added 50% more members, but you also had increased the price, so now you were making double the income that you had been making before. And I know sometimes as being British, you want to pass over that, but I really.

Susan Yeates:
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Kellee Wynne:
What I really want people to understand is doing less can actually lead you to making more.

Susan Yeates:
Absolutely. It's being laser focused on what it is that, like, my business is what it is that I do. And, like, I know for me the business is sustained, sustainable if I run the membership, because I enjoy doing it. I love coming up with the content, I love creating tutorials for it, I love connecting with the members. I could, I could. Like, I'm sure this is something that you send us.

Kellee Wynne:
If you.

Susan Yeates:
What would you do if you could do it for free? Like, what would. Would you still be doing this anyway if you weren't paid for it? I'm like, well, yeah, because when I first started, I didn't charge very much. I was like, just come and join. It's really fun. Come and sketch with me. And I did my challenge for free. Free for probably four or five years. And I even kept a free option up until probably year number eight.

Susan Yeates:
Like, I was really reticent to charge for teaching, but it isn't like I'm running business. I'm not running a charity. Like, this is how I pay my bills and mortgage. And it's been a shift in the business to charge for certain things, but I now feel comfortable doing that because I'm aware that there's value, that the community is strong, that there's so many wonderful benefits from it, that I'm now comfortable charging for my teaching, which I think. And like, for anyone listening, it's val. Like, good quality teaching is highly valuable. Like, that's why university degrees are expensive. Like, it's.

Susan Yeates:
Why shouldn't we teach as artists and then charge for our teaching as well? I think there's a funny thing.

Kellee Wynne:
I'm enjoying this, but it's so easy. But, you know, who am I? And, yeah, and ew, charging money is so gross for an artist. But the truth of the matter is, like you said, you have a mortgage, you have bills to pay. You have a daughter to pay for her schooling. You know, like, we're real humans with real bills. Like, you would never, like, turn to a doctor and be like, how could you not give your medicine, medical advice away for free? Because, you know, we work. Not that, you know, are we doing something as important as a doctor? That's negotiable, but we still, we. Unfortunately, there is no way in this world at this point that we can keep moving forward and without having to deal with money.

Kellee Wynne:
It's just part of the game, and it's a beautiful part of the game, really. Honestly, I've had a lot of people who were like, just, you know, I'm glad to pay you for this work because this is exactly what I need right now. And that's probably how your members feel too.

Susan Yeates:
Absolutely. And I think there was a sort of strange period in Covid, which was good and bad for the industry because I think it was good in that it highlighted how important creativity and lots of things like that hobbies are for wellness. Like, so many people went into the gardens and gardening, like, took a huge uptake, as did all creative arts and industries. People turned to creativity when they couldn't do anything else. And it. It really helped people out mentally to survive what was an incredibly difficult time for most people. But it was a strange time in Sort of our industry, especially for perhaps teachers like ourselves who've been teaching pre Covid, because I found there was a lot of people who then taught online and were doing it for free because they were doing it as a hobby. It wasn't their job.

Susan Yeates:
So it kind of flooded the industry with teachers who were like, oh, I don't need to be paid for this because it's my hobby, so come and do my classes for free because I just want to share it. And that was a tricky situation for artists who, this is our job. And this was our job before COVID It'd be my job ongoing.

Kellee Wynne:
But what's interesting is a lot of them have finally realized that they need to make it a business because you can't run it for, for free because you still have to pay for the software. You still have to take all that time to put it together and market it. And, and then you have all these people who are like, I made a course, but now what? And fortunately, or I don't know, I would say my art students are disappointed that I'm not creating as many art courses now. But I have a passion for this stuff, you know, and so that's when I developed, on the heels of the world opening back up, I developed my, my coaching, my mentorship for course creators.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne:
Memberships, courses, workshops, community collaborations. And it's been my thing that I can stick to.

Susan Yeates:
And I think ultimately you are helping more people gain access to creativity in art courses, because it's not just your art courses, it's the art, all these other people that you help, their art courses. And I think overall, I mean, I always wear my positive pants. I'm Mrs. Optimism. Like, I'm always like, positive pants. Like, Covid has helped in some ways the industry in many ways, because there's more people creating, more people teaching, more people enjoying it. And if it means that there's more people out there teaching and then they're charging for it, it validates the industry. It's right.

Kellee Wynne:
More people are comfortable with getting online to learn.

Susan Yeates:
Exactly. And I mean, I'm certainly one of these people that I'm not going to buy one art course and that's the only one I'll ever buy and I won't buy another one again. I buy lots of art courses. I jump around. I, I, I, yeah, I buy a lot of online art courses. I love to learn from other teachers who don't like creativity doesn't end. Like, isn't there a wonderful quote by Maya Angelou about, like, creativity never ends I can't remember what it is. I'm completely mixing the quote up.

Susan Yeates:
But it's like, it doesn't stop. It just fuels more creativity. So if you buy one art course, you might then see another teacher and then buy another one, and it's just this wonderful.

Kellee Wynne:
But I will encourage the art course buyers to actually watch the course and put it into play. We don't need it. We don't need it sitting there on the dusty digital shelf.

Susan Yeates:
No, watch the course. Do the course. Absolutely.

Kellee Wynne:
Watch the course. Do the course. So, Susan, I'm gonna just ask for a little feedback, like, what is it that you've learned since being in Build It? Remarkable. Why did you join the league? What. What do you see your future looking like now with these extra tools?

Susan Yeates:
So I think some of the most important things that I've learned are about that.

Kellee Wynne:
The.

Susan Yeates:
The rule of one that niching down that I think there was just going to backtrack that slightly. There was one exercise you did as part of Build It Remarkable. When you kind of just brainstormed what you're good at. And I can't remember what you called.

Kellee Wynne:
This, but it was rebel genius.

Susan Yeates:
Yes. It was just working out. What are you good at? Like, what's your strong points? Like, what should you be doing? What are you good at? And it was kind of a separate exercise. Exercise. I was like, cool. This is powerful stuff. This is amazing because it helped me realize what it was that I was good at, what I wanted to do, and then moving in to sort of build it. Remarkable.

Susan Yeates:
And then the league just honing down on what it is that I'm good at. And the plan for structuring your business, making all roads lead to inspire, that's my big thing in the middle. And then you've got the little free things, you've got the slightly paid things. You've got the art retreat, which is the high end. Just that structure and planning out the building blocks of the business and the fact that you can kind of work from there, but then you can tweak it and adjust it and change it. And I think the wonderful thing about the league for me is connecting with other people doing similar things. Nobody's doing exactly the same. We're all running art businesses in different formats, different mediums, different ways, we're different humans.

Susan Yeates:
Being able to kind of talk these things through, but also tweak and adjust and figure out what's working and get the feedback from the community, I think is so helpful. And just knowing you're not alone for Sure.

Kellee Wynne:
I would say the. My goal is to create a simple process so that you don't feel so overwhelmed. But there's no doubt it takes time, which is why I've shift build it remarkable into a year long program. Whereas before it was like three months with, with a few extra months of just community. But now I realize how long, how long it takes to really get this figured out and get it going and getting out in front of people's eyes, making the sales, trying again, adjusting again. But I love it because I know that the systems that I've put in place work because you're evidence of it. You know, they do work.

Susan Yeates:
And you're right, you need time to implement. Like implementing, I think is like saying like buy the course, do the course. Like you need to learn the information but then you need to put it into practice because it's, it's a business. Like stuff is happening. You need to launch the course, you need to teach the class, you need to do the sales page and see how it works and then adjust and change and try things out. And that all does take time and a bit like creativity. Running a business is a process you don't finish. Running a business, like you don't write, that's done, I finished it today.

Susan Yeates:
Like there's always something like more it's progress. You've got to launch the next thing come. Like it's, it's a constant process of adjusting, trying, which I find fun. I think it's enjoyable. Like trying new things and experimenting. And I get to invent new online courses and launch them and try things out. I think that's the wonderful thing about running a business. But it can also be hugely overwhelming because you can do so much.

Susan Yeates:
So having a framework like you say is part of like build it remarkable or it, it gives you a framework to get started and then sort of progress in your own way. Yeah, there is sense.

Kellee Wynne:
Yeah. Everyone's creating something different, but within that framework it gives you structure to know what to work on and how, how to grow in ways that people really didn't know before. You know, And I, I love seeing that growth. It's exciting to me to see people double their income or finally make so much that they can buy the house for their family or you know, those kinds of things are like, that's what keeps me motivated.

Susan Yeates:
Oh. And absolutely. It totally shows through as well because like, I swear you get more excited when one of us has a success than we do. We're like, oh yeah, yeah, we did this and we doubled that. And you're like, that's amazing.

Kellee Wynne:
Yeah.

Susan Yeates:
Face lights up. We're like, well, yes, but yeah, I suppose it was. Yeah, I think you're right. So having that reflected back is really, really nice. Like, the celebration is great.

Kellee Wynne:
There's always a celebration going on on the inside. I want to talk one last thing before we get off. Let's talk about your Tiny Moments course that's coming up. Something special you put together. I think it's a great way for people to kind of get to know you while they're on the path to joining Inspire.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think this was, it was something we sort of talked about, was that I don't have currently an affordable standalone sketching course for people to get to know me and the process and learn with me outside of Inspire. So the course is called Tiny Moments, and it's a mindful sketching journey in grids and thumbnails. Because what I've realized that I personally do quite a lot is I use like thumbnails to sketch like little landscapes or I do small drawings in sort of three to five minutes. And a lot of people go, well, you can't, you can't do anything in three minutes. Five minutes. Like that doesn't make sense. You can't, you need longer.

Susan Yeates:
And I was like, well, no, I really don't. I. I sketch in tiny pockets of time. That's what I do. I'm busy, I have a daughter, I've got stuff going on. I don't. I'm not able to luxuriate for a whole day doing a huge art practice. I short sharp little bits of sketching.

Susan Yeates:
So the whole idea and concept of the course was creating a whole range of tutorials in slightly different subject matter. So one is on like materials, one is on landscapes, one is on nature, another modules on warm up sketches and doodles. So different subject matters to suit different people, but all about creating little sketches that you can do in tiny moments. So it might be that you're at a cafe, you've ordered a coffee, you've got sort of 10 minutes, and you can open your sketchbook and dive into one of these tutorials and do something really quickly.

Kellee Wynne:
I mean, how long does it take water to boil, especially a pot of water for pasta? I mean, if it's just sitting there on your kitchen countertop, then in between the things you're doing. And I love that, especially because, you know, I am really in to the grid.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne:
And so when I saw that, I was like, oh, that's gonna be Fun.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah.

Kellee Wynne:
Any part of the building blocks, because it is still a stepping stone to get into inspire. So it fits within the framework quite nicely.

Susan Yeates:
It does, yeah. And they're very similar tutorials to how I would teach and inspire. Everything is sort of five to 10 minutes. They're not hour long recordings that you've got to, you know, assign an afternoon to do it. You can watch the tutorial within five to 10 minutes, a couple of slightly longer. So there's a little bit of variation, but you can watch the tutorial, but then you can set up a page or you don't even need to set up a page, just grab a pencil. Like some of them are literally, grab your pencil, grab your sketchbook, go, off you go. You don't need to plan anything and you can just do it in sort of five, 10 minutes.

Susan Yeates:
And it really taps into that little bits regularly, that habit of sketching, which is something I've taught for years as part of my Sketchbook challenge, which is all like, do a different prompt a day. This is a slightly different, slightly more meditative approach that you'll do the same thing every day or you'll change up what you're doing, but it just gives options for things that you can do in little small spaces. And it, you know, you don't have to fill a whole sketchbook page. It doesn't have to be this beautiful, Instagram shareable, worthy piece. It can be a little doodle in a little scribbled square or rectangle that you've put in your sketchbook. And you know, thumbnails are how artists have worked for hundreds of years. Like in terms of capturing information in, in sketchbooks and a nice neat grid. I just love it because it's neat and it's.

Susan Yeates:
That appeals to my ocd. Make it neat and perfect. But thumbnail or a grid for everybody. It can be big, small, messy, neat. So a little bit of something for everybody.

Kellee Wynne:
I'm really excited for this to launch, I'm putting a link. Do you have a wait list already?

Susan Yeates:
I do have a waiting list.

Kellee Wynne:
Good. Because that's part of the instructions, is always get that waiting list out there early. So I'm going to link that in the show notes to make sure if anyone wants to experience this, especially if you are an art teacher, if you are an online course creator, you need this time for yourself too. Like we said, you gotta fill your cup.

Susan Yeates:
Oh, absolutely. You really do. Yeah. And that's what all I do is about, is just filling your cup. Have fun with creativity. Play, experiment, Enjoy sketching, because for me, it's like foundational. I will do lots of other stuff. I'll paint sometimes, I will make clothes, I will do all sorts of other stuff.

Susan Yeates:
But my foundation is that kind of daily sketching. And I do sketch daily. Sometimes it is just a doodle in a square. I'm currently obsessed with sketching little plants. At the moment, I've got these little glass houses that I'm sketching with plants in them, and that's a tutorial within the course. But I'm literally obsessively doing this every day because I'm just. I've got a sketchbook to fill of it. So that little bit regularly just keeps your creative brain ticking over.

Susan Yeates:
You're accessing it every day in little bits and there's a lot of value in that.

Kellee Wynne:
I think that you've inspired me.

Susan Yeates:
Good.

Kellee Wynne:
So everyone, where can they find you on Instagram? Susan Yates.

Susan Yeates:
Yeah. Susan Yates Artist is my Instagram handle and my website is susan yates.co.uk and I have a very funny spelt name. It's very odd. It's Y, E A T E S. So I think there's only one of me.

Kellee Wynne:
I will also put that information so it's easy to connect with you and I am just so grateful I've gotten to know you over time and connect with you. Our. Our Little League group is like a very special. They're so energy, beautiful women and. And I couldn't have asked for more. So thank you so much for being part of my world and for being on the podcast.

Susan Yeates:
Susan, it's been a joy. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great. Talk and chat, all things creativity and arty business stuff. I love it.