Helping Artists Market and Sell Their Art with Amanda Heath

[00:00:00] Made Remarkable Intro: Welcome back. And thanks for tuning into the made remarkable podcast. Hosted by Kellee Wynne. On today's episode, Kellee will speak with an incredibly talented artist who has truly made their mark in the world of creativity. Amanda Heath. Listen to this captivating conversation between Amanda and Kelly, that delves into the transformative power of creativity, exploring the profound impact it has on our lives. And the inspiring journey of pursuing a passion. They share their insights and experiences uncovering the immense potential that lies within each of us to create something truly remarkable. Check out the show notes and transcripts for more information about Amanda. Exclusive promotional offers and any special links mentioned during the episode. 

Kellee loves connecting with listeners. So don't be shy. Reach out on social media and together let's build a community that celebrates the remarkable. If you want to be notified every time a new episode hits the airwaves. Just hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform or share with your friends. Thank you for joining us today. And always remember you are made remarkable. Destined to achieve the unimaginable. Now let's get to the good part. Introducing Kellee Wynne and Amanda Heath. 

[00:01:00] Kellee Wynne ConradWell, hello. Hello. I'm Kellee Wynne, artist, author, mentor, fiercely independent mother and wife, and the founder of a multiple six figure creative business, and I love my life. But I've been where you're at. I was slogging away at this art business thing for more than a decade. Once I finally connected with my true calling, unlocked the magic of marketing, and built a system that could scale while I realized I could make an impact and make a substantial income, I'm finally running a business that I love and it makes all the difference in the world.

My biggest dream is to help you do the same. Let this podcast be the catalyst to your biggest success. You already have it in you because you are made remarkable.

[00:01:59] Kellee Wynne Conrad: well, finally we get to meet Amanda. 

[00:02:03] Amanda Heath: Hi, lovely to meet you, and it's an absolute pleasure to be here. 

[00:02:06] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yay. So you just got back from a trip to Greece for a couple of weeks? 

[00:02:10] Amanda Heath: I did, yeah. 

[00:02:11] Kellee Wynne Conrad: And you're looking all lovely and tan and hopefully relaxed. However, we were just discussing the fact that you come home from a vacation and it feels like all of a sudden you get hit with the to-do list.

[00:02:25] Amanda Heath: Oh, absolutely. On holiday, I thought I'm gonna maintain this lovely kind of zen flow state where everything feels nice and relaxed and you come home and, and luckily I've got a great team in place, so they've been kind of overseeing things and it's run like clockwork. But regardless, you still come home to an enormous to-do list and suddenly it's like, 

[00:02:45] Kellee Wynne Conrad: yeah, yeah. Right back in there. Yeah. I supposedly took a break over the summer, but I was really just catching up on my to-do list. 

[00:02:54] Amanda Heath: Yeah. You need it sometimes, don't you? You just need to hide behind closed doors. Oh, yeah. And get those things done. 

[00:02:59] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah, exactly. So why don't, since many people might not know who you are or what you do, or how we ended up connected, it's mostly because we have the same kind of love and passion for supporting artists.

Yes. But I would love for you to tell a little bit about, you know, how you became an artist, and then how you transitioned into being a coach. 

[00:03:21] Amanda Heath: Ah, right. Oh, well, it's a long and interesting story, hopefully, but, I'm a, a certified business mentor for artists, and basically I help artists sell more work on their terms so that basically they get to make a full-time income doing what they love, which I'm really passionate about because from a very young age, I was always taught that art was definitely not a career option.

And if you chose it, you were destined to starve basically. Yes. Um, and at the age of 11, you know, I, I went away to theater school, so I got accepted into dance training school went away there to train full time. So did that always kind of painted and drew in the sidelines as you know, other people were rehearsing and just loved, loved, love, loved creating, but was always told, absolutely not.

It's either dance or it's, you know, academic side of things, but definitely not art. So for years kind of pushed it to one side and had a career as a dancer and then went on in later life to do a Master's in business, which I loved. Yeah. And when I finished that, I then went on to open my first business.

'cause I've had three multiple six figure businesses that I've built from scratch and most of them as a single mom. So there's been a fair amount of juggling going on. So first business absolutely loved it. That was in retail, so I had my own shop and sold products and it was amazing, but it just didn't feel quite aligned.

It was an award-winning business, so it did really well. But do you know when your heart is kind of saying it's good, but it's not? A forever kind of thing. So, um, I closed that, had a little period off where I had my son, and then opened a second business a little while later, which was Pilates and yoga studios, pretty much going back to dancing days.

Um, they went really well. They didn't, at first, it was a slow growth, but you know, when they picked up, they went very well. I had two stereo studios, kind of 15 team members, instructors, you know, therapists, et cetera. And that was a service-based business. So I was teaching there teaching courses and programs and workshops.

And in that business I massively burnt out. And I think we've probably all been there at one point or another, but everybody kind of wanted the owner of the business to teach, which was me. And so I opened more classes, more studios, you know, built the timetable up, and then got to a stage where I was just totally burnt out.

And I came to a point where I thought, I've got all of the material successes. We've got a big car and beautiful house. You know, all of these things. I'm really unhappy. At first I thought, what's wrong with me? You know, with all these things you should be happy. And I realized that I just wasn't, again, following the calling that I had what I was meant to be doing.

So I spent a good period, I think it was about eight or nine months where I put people in the studio to run it for me. And I just took some time out to say, what is it that makes me happy? What do I want to do? Why am I lost? Did loads of things like pottery, horse riding, you know, reading clubs, all sorts of things.

And eventually you'll laugh at this bit. I went to an art class, but not because I thought that was gonna be the answer, but because I'd been single for such a long time at that point, and in my head I thought, if I go to this art class, I'm gonna meet this long haired brooding artist, you know? And um, you know, I'll go on a date.

And that was honestly the reason for going to the art class. So I went along. I turned up and like everybody there was over 60, 65, so I thought, oh right, okay. The he's not here. Yeah. So I might as well just sit down and paint and the two hours literally disappeared. It was like I'd just sat down. It was amazing.

So it kind of reignited something again and. I discovered basically that that's what had been missing. And, and a mentor of mine at the time said, well, that was obvious. You know, you're so passionate about your art and when you talk about it, you really light up. So yeah, that's what led me into this business.

So I picked on my art again and just absolutely loved it, but I knew I didn't want to let go of the business side of things. So I kind of decided to do both things in tandem. And it was June 21 or July 21, I decided to sell those studios and just go all in and be an artist full time.

And, ugh, just never looked back. So there's two strands to my business now. My artwork and the business calls for artists helping them sell more work. 

[00:08:35] Kellee Wynne Conrad: So I'm glad to hear that you sold them and didn't just let them close because it seems like you built an amazing foundation, um, your business acumen obviously from years of doing it, from creating different types of businesses and business models.

So I love the thought that you can build something and let it go and let someone else take over, and that's really beautiful. 

[00:09:01] Amanda Heath: Well, also what I didn't realize the, the first two times, to be honest, and I reached the moment with both businesses is they grew to such a level that they became almost unmanageable for me.

And I didn't have anybody, any kind of mentor or family that were in business, you know, ahead of me either could say Amanda, Actually, this is what you can do now. You've reached this level. You can scale to here and put these things in place and keep hold. So with the first business, you know, like I said, that was a, a award-winning.

It was fantastic. And I just closed it down. The second business I did sell, but I reached the same point of. Fullness in this art business very quickly, much quicker with it being the third one. And luckily I had mentors around me to say, fantastic, you know, at that stage where you can put in these systems, pull in these team members and you can just continue to grow.

But, uh, yeah, it only comes with experience in hindsight that doesn't it. 

[00:10:00] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Right. And shortening that path to understanding it by getting mentors that can help you. 

[00:10:06] Amanda Heath: Oh, it's, do you know that is critical. I always, and, and I dunno whether you were the same. I always thought I can do this myself. Yes.

Fiercely independent. Yes. Yeah. Why would I pay anybody else to do it 

[00:10:18] Kellee Wynne Conrad: The first decade? That's all I did was try to figure it out myself. Yeah. 

[00:10:22] Amanda Heath: Yeah. YouTube videos, like free downloads and you go round and round in circles and you know, I had a lot of business experience and I'm sure you did too, but you go round in circles following all of these different strategies and all of these.

Jigsaw puzzles and it's like, I always say, trying to do a jigsaw with all different pieces that don't fit and wondering why, you know, it's not making a picture. But then, as soon as I took on mentors who were further ahead of me than, you know, in the field, I wanted to move forwards in things just really escalated. They took off massively. Yeah. 

[00:10:59] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Um, so you said something about finding your passion, finding your thing that calling, but I'm kind of wondering if we are. Kinda like the one, true love. We know maybe there isn't such thing as a one true love that many, many others could fill that spot and fill our heart.

But could it be the same with our passion too, that in times and seasons of our life, as we change and we grow and we learn that we might find a passion that we love a calling, grow it and then find ourselves a new person, a different person, and ready for the next adventure. 

[00:11:36] Amanda Heath: Yeah. I think that's really a really valid point.

And there's a saying, isn't there, to do with people. And I think it's the same with business. They come into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime. Yes. And I think it's the same with any kind of passion, and I don't think there's a right or wrong. I think if you have a period of five, 10 years where you're totally immersed in art and then you think, do you know what, this is not for me anymore.

I want to pursue something else, then that's fine. But I think a lot of us that are artists, it's just in there, isn't it? And unless you do it, you are unhappy. It's like an itch that needs scratching. And it's not to say that we carry on doing the same thing forever. I think we have to evolve.

Mm-hmm. And push ourselves and innovate and try new things to excite us so it doesn't become stale. 

[00:12:24] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Right. And I think if you're naturally drawn to being creative, you're always gonna find some sort of creative path. Yeah. Yeah. So whether, you know our art is meant to change and evolve, you look at even any of the famous artists and you see that there's different periods of time.

Yeah. Picasso in his blue period or pink period or whatever. Like it changes. It evolves. We start in one place and we're eventually gonna end up in a different place. And I think that goes with almost anything that we choose to do in life. I know. When I became a mother, choosing to not make art anymore and instead focus in on the scrapbooking and craft making industry was in some ways incredibly helpful for me because it refined my ideas, it helped me understand materials.

It definitely helped me understand composition in ways that I hadn't before, and I was still motivated to contribute to the greater of society. I didn't just do it for me, so, Eventually though that evolved and turned around again back to, okay, I need fine art again. And it's really interesting because in my path as finding myself as an artist, I came back into painting and soft pastel and, and painting on canvas.

And eventually, and this is years in the making, came full circle back to my love of paper again. And so I can see things are always going to evolve and change if my materials keep changing. But my outlet is gonna always be this consistent thread through my life of I need to create. And I think most humans are probably born creators.

We just have to find what it is we wanna create, whether it's, you know, web design or, science and new products, whatever. Or for some of us, which is everyone probably listening right now. The need to create in like a pure art form. And you are a creator as a dancer, you know that. So I do find it interesting that they're like, art isn't a great path for you to make money.

And yet who would even say dance is a good path for making? 

[00:14:34] Amanda Heath: Well, and the shop I had was fashion. It was high-end fashion. So everything has been creative, but I've kind of dance around the outsides because I was too afraid to go for it. And things that are at the time are seemingly unrelated and you think you're jumping from one thing to another when at one point in your life, and I think this happens for a lot of people, is they all come together and you go, ah, that tapestry all makes sense now.

So the experience with selling products and the experience with selling courses all come together to formulate what I'm doing now. And I couldn't have done it without those, you know, those different experiences. 

[00:15:15] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Exactly the, and then of course your, your ability to understand business immediately translates in, okay, I need to make art.

I need to make great art, but then how do I sell it? And then of course, understanding some selling principles, some marketing and selling principles are the same no matter what industry it's, right. 

[00:15:36] Amanda Heath: Yeah. And some are different. Yeah. 

[00:15:39] Kellee Wynne Conrad: You can implement that in a much more clear and decisive way. 

[00:15:44] Amanda Heath: A hundred percent and always making art from a position of what you are really passionate about and then deciding how to sell it rather than thinking about what's gonna sell.

Right. And trying to create that. 'cause for me that's a road to burnout. And just going back to what you said before about the sketch booking and things, I think that's brilliant because we all think that everything is a direct path and it's very linear and a lot of the time it's like night and day. We are not meant to be pushing all the time and creating fine art finished pieces.

Sometimes we have to kind of, I feel, go back into our shell a little bit and rest and replenish and rejuvenate and you know, do the collage and the cutting and sticking so that we can mentally process and rest and then all the ideas mates and we can come back out and kind of blossom if you like. But I love that you did that as well.

It's a really, really, and not, I think a lot of people don't have the courage to do that. 

[00:16:44] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I had never really figured out and broken through and how to make art a career either. It was the same mystery to me as it is probably everybody else. And I was faced with the path of two ways to go. I was in my early twenties mm-hmm.

And I had moved out of my house the day I graduated high school. So I've been bouncing around, I'd been trying everything. I'd worked retail, I'd taken some college classes, I followed boys to other states more than one time I was all done that and, and somehow I ended up back in Northern California and, mm-hmm.

On my own, happily on my own. But like what do I do? I, and I started, I 'cause serial entrepreneur as well, in one form or another. I started my own house cleaning business because I'm like, oh, I'll have more freedom and I'll make more money. And so I was cleaning houses and I just was like, okay, this can't be it forever.

And I looked at two paths, and this is the craziest thing. I looked at two paths. I had applied for art school, but I didn't have a loan. Mm-hmm. Right. Or money for it. Yeah. Get a loan. But it was gonna require me paying it back right away. And then I still had to figure out how to support myself. Yes. Or I could join the army.

Yeah. And crazy thing is I went and joined the army. So I was staring at that path, still wanting to be an artist, still wanting to go to many times. Right. But I'm like, okay, but how am I ever gonna make money doing this? Yeah. You know? So I chose for the adventure and it did turn out to be an adventure in a way that I wasn't expecting.

Amazing. Yeah. So where we are faced with these choices over and over again, and I think, that whatever we're meant to do may come back around many times until I really say, this is it. It does. I'm not gonna ignore it anymore. 

[00:18:40] Amanda Heath: It does. It starts as a whisper, and then it's a little poke, and then it's a kind of punch in the shoulder, and then it's like, aha.

A full on shout until you listen. Yeah. But yeah, I've been at that crossroad so many times. Like you said, the fear of having to, especially, you know, with that previous business that I sold to go from that level of income, I had two children at the time and I was single, and I thought, I can't just let that go and be an artist because you've got two children to bring up and you know, you have household bills and we have responsibilities, and you just think, I can't just go away and start painting and, you know, hope that food will put itself on the table.

[00:19:19] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah, yeah. So in, in a need for responsibility, we sometimes snuff out the possibility that there's really, you can make a amazing income from being in office. And I think that people are starting to understand that that's possible. Yeah. But you, you hit on something that was really important earlier in conversation, which is you need to bake.

The art that you're passionate about First, I, I really believe that you need to get to a point of proficiency or excellency or mastery of some sort before you, you know, I'm not saying you can't dabble at, but oftentimes when artists say, why am I not selling? And I'm like, well, you've only been doing this for a year.

So instead of focusing on the sellings, focus on the mastery of your craft and knowing who you are and finding your voice. And you did say one other thing that you said, and I've been in this place where don't look at what sells. Yes. And they act, make your art. And you'll find out, my, my father said this all the time.

Art made with passion is gonna find a home versus soulless commercial work. And I'm not saying that you can't do that, but will you be happy in the long run? Will you feel like it's you? 

[00:20:36] Amanda Heath: That just gave me goosebumps. It really did. 

[00:20:38] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Well, I did that for a while because I got trapped in this to where I live near the water in Annapolis.

Everything is sailboats, crabs, oysters, beaches, cranes, whatever. It's like all, you know, Annapolis themed and we could, if you love that, great. Whatever the locale is. If you live in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, and you wanna paint buffalo, it makes sense. All right, fine. Great. You're, you're happy with that?

I wasn't interested in doing that. So my, my appeasement to the crowds was to make some beach paintings. I'm, oh my God, I got stuck in that for so long, and I, yeah, I'll never paint another beach painting. Never say never. But my goal is to never paint another beach painting because I was doing it because it was commercial and it could sell, but it wasn't from my heart.

[00:21:29] Amanda Heath: You can tell, you can tell in a piece of work whether somebody's excited about it. You can tell when they're talking about it, whether it came from a place of passion or a place of necessity. But if we paint from what's inside, we create really strong work, or it's, it's much stronger for sure. But if we look externally, what's gonna sell?

What are people telling me they want? You know, it's a road to nowhere because people change all the time. Mm-hmm. One person's gonna say, oh, can you paint portraits? You should paint portraits. And the next person says, oh, can you do my dog? You know, you should be doing dog. Oh yeah. And it's like you could get pulled in a million directions and never master anything.

Whereas if you block all of that out and say, what do I wanna do? Even if I didn't earn a penny from it, what would I make then? You know, it's a really strong starting point. 

[00:22:20] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Right. And a lot of times we don't even know what that is at the beginning, so go ahead and paint beaches and dogs and portraits and Exactly.

And abstracts until you start falling into your own pattern. That makes sense. When we're learning, just as in in history, artists would study under another artist and copy the work. Really, honestly. That's fine. In the beginning, that's totally expected, but eventually, by doing that enough, you're gonna find your voice.

You're gonna figure out what work, what colors work for you, what brush strokes work for you without having to always rely on an outside source to give you input. And that's, I feel like you can get to that point where you don't need the outside source to always dictate. Now, I'm not saying we should ever go without.

Good critiques will help us improve our work. But I'm like to always source like your next project based off of what someone else is doing and following a class, following a course, we start there, but eventually we grow into making our own work. 

[00:23:24] Amanda Heath: Definitely. And it is listening to those feelings as you're going through that exploratory stage to say, how did that feel?

Did it excite me? Did the time pass like this? Did I get really frustrated? Was I bored? You know, all of those like emotions, a signposts really towards our own style I think. 

[00:23:44] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. Yeah. There were, in the past few years, there were many times where I'm like, okay, I'm painting and I gotta force myself to the end of this painting.

And I'm more comfortable making stuff that lights me up. Like when I get to the point where I'm like, I can't wait. I. To try the next thing, the next idea. I'm looking forward to painting. But there were many years where I'm like, alright, I'm painting because I said I'm an artist, but I don't really love making art right now.

So that's a really strange place to be in. 

[00:24:14] Amanda Heath: It is, and I don't think many people talk about that. And also there's this, the expectation from the very fine art world, you know, the traditional kind of fine art gallery, you know, mainly male kind of orientated, you know, from history who have this expectation and it's a little bit navel gazing.

Um, and sometimes having that pressure of having to have this really important kind of starting point for a collection that's quite either political or, you know, Making a statement, big statement, a political statement, or whatever it may be. And that put pressure on me for a long time. And I couldn't go near the easel or near the studio 'cause I was like, I dunno what I have to say.

You know, it was completely like a rabbit in headlights. And in the end I just thought, oh, stuff it just go in and paint what you want to paint. And ignore all of that advice. And then the joy came back again. But sometimes trying to fill that kind of fill those shoes right, just isn't 

[00:25:16] Kellee Wynne Conrad: right people. Hmm.

I think that just comes back to the same thing we've been saying. It's, if you're taking too much input from the outside instead of your own intuition, you're not gonna be led down the right path. Right. Yeah. 

So do you find that the artists that you work with do better when they finally come into their own and they're making art that lights them up?

[00:25:40] Amanda Heath: Massively. And I love this, the really amazing things is some of them are very clear when they come in and the first couple of modules are designed to say, stop. Are you making the arts that really lights you up or are you doing it for somebody else? And I, I wanna build a whole business on that foundation.

And a few of them have gone through the program and I've kinda looked and thought, I don't think that's what they're really passionate about. And some of them have even got towards the end and then gone, do you know what, this isn't it. I should have been more honest with myself. And a girl who went right back to the beginning and started again with her kind of passion project of Woodcarvings that were just so unique.

You could tell her face when she came on the calls, was excited, the work was brilliant, it was passionate. And she sold out of her first collection. Yeah. Yeah. So certainly she sold a few pieces very quickly. I don't know whether she sold it or some of them do, but she certainly sold a few pieces really, very, very quickly.

And it was like, of course you will, because you were excited about it. That excitement came across. People feel it. And I, I do love that, but it's very important. Yeah. 

[00:26:56] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. So she was making something else and then went back to the thing that she actually loved to do, and it changed everything. 

[00:27:04] Amanda Heath: Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of, we've got worksheets in the program that really help people dig deep, because sometimes I don't think we go deep enough right. Into our why. And then if we do go deep enough, sometimes it uncovers something that we've been squashing mm-hmm. Through fear or whatever it may be.

And she found it and it's, it was amazing to see. Yeah. 

[00:27:25] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. And you know what's really crazy is we can find that thread goes all the way back to childhood. Ooh. And the things that I loved then and, and even what inspires me now? I can see more of a connection and so the more I'm true to myself, the more fun I'm having with it.

And honestly, I haven't sold artwork in a long time, so maybe I'd have to have a little bit of advice from Amanda. 'cause I've really been so focused on the art courses and the coaching programs. And it's not that I don't sell my art, I just haven't chosen not to. But now I realize like it's a huge shift for me to come back full circle to making work that I'm really passionate about.

And I know that it makes a difference because the last time I sold art, which was 10 years ago, sad to say I sold out of everything right. So, but I know that I didn't sell out in the first good decade that I was doing art, you know? Well, one, I wasn't very good yet, and I can look back and say, okay, now I understand.

[00:28:31] Amanda Heath: But at the time we thought it was amazing. 

[00:28:33] Kellee Wynne Conrad: We did. And that's okay. That gets your feet wet. And then also I, had every year or every six months I was changing my voice again. And it may still be that way for a while, but I realize now that you don't find your style or your voice the first go around or even the, maybe the fifth go around.

[00:28:54] Amanda Heath: Yeah, yeah. It just keeps evolving. But I think a lot of artists, the traditional way of selling art, either through galleries and, and I love galleries and nothing wrong with them at all. I think a good gallery is worth its weight in gold and. You know, doing art shows can be, it kind of passes responsibility to the gallery to sell your work.

And obviously you only get 50% commission. And then the shows are about, they're quite labor intensive and costly, and there's only so many you can do in a year without completely burning out. Right. So it's, it's reworking the model to say you don't have to leave your house actually to sell art. You can reach an international audience, sell your work via your own website, keep a lot of the profits, and you can work in tandem with a gallery if you want to, and you can do shows.

But if you have this recurrent income stream where, you know, you're waking up to inquiries and you're waking up to sales, the possibilities of the internet now and, and the scope it offers are, uh, they're just endless. 

[00:30:00] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Right. And I think that may be two decades ago when our good loving family was saying maybe even more than two decades ago, we're saying don't think about It is, yeah.

It was like decades ago for me, but I know when you stop 

[00:30:17] Amanda Heath: counting back, it's like, oh my god, that's longer than I thought. 

[00:30:20] Kellee Wynne Conrad: It's been a while now, but that's, it's fine. It's something, I mean, like my main focus even in high school was art. So yes, this is always a path I've wanted to do, but the options were very limited until the internet, and even in the first decade of this century, people weren't really selling art online.

It's just only in the last maybe five or 10 years that it's become completely normal, completely acceptable. People are comfortable with buying art without actually seeing it in person, and it's like democratized. Being an artist. Oh, it has.

And so it's not just the exclusive people who can get into a gallery anymore. 

[00:31:00] Amanda Heath: No, that's it. And I remember the same pattern because in 2005, that's when I had the retail business. And I remember the same pattern then because people said, oh, you can't sell clothes online. People need to, to try them on to feel them to, to, and Right.

And then it started to happen. And by, you know, goodness, it really took off. The same thing happened without a few years ago, and I, I still, you know, met people at shows saying, you can't sell art online. People need to see it. They need to experience it in person. And the same thing is happening, but the online art market is growing exponentially.

So yeah, to tap into that is, is, is critical, really. 

[00:31:40] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. Well, so here's the, the thing though, I will say the beauty of working with a gallery, yes, they take 50%, but traditionally the way a gallery would work is I blissfully paint. I bring you the artwork, you find the customers, you sell it. I just show up for the nice grand opening and that's it.

I go back to being an artist and I don't have to actually do a whole lot of, maybe a little bookkeeping, maybe a little, you know, proper framing or whatever. Like, 'cause I went through this with my father. Like I'm, I come from a family of artisan and the neighborhood I grew up in, I would see, you know, the work that went behind.

But you would show up and bring your art and that was it. You didn't have to do social media. Mm-hmm. You didn't have to have an email list. You didn't have to know how to market it. You didn't have to do any of that. And so there is a beauty in that and if there are any Oh definitely because I still do that.

That's amazing. But I'm finding in the last decade as I was work, 'cause I did work with galleries for a while before I finally like said enough of that is they wanted you to come and bring the art. And do all the work for the marketing and bring your people in and then sell it to your own people and still take 50%.

And I was like, um, uh, no, I'll just post it outta my own house. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that's ridiculous. So everything started changing where you still had to find your own people. And so there may be still some high-end galleries, I'm sure New York and, and in Palm Springs and London and whatnot, you can just drop your stuff off and they'll find the, the sellers.

But that's few and far between. All of the smaller galleries. Don't do that anymore. 

[00:33:21] Amanda Heath: No. And they're closing. A lot of them are closing down and that's where I was saying good galleries are worth awaiting gold 'cause they do take care of everything for you. And there are some artists out there who are just not born to self represent.

They don't want to do the marketing, they don't want to find customers. They have no interest. And if that's the case a hundred percent find a good gallery 'cause yeah, they are fantastic. But there's nothing wrong with blending the two approaches either. Right. And I recently worked with a gallery and I had to pay obviously to pack the artwork very substantially to ship it quite a distance, which was a fortune.

Insure it. Then they sold, you know, X amount of pieces and there were a couple remaining. So I had to pay for those to be shipped back over insured. So at the end of it, and I've heard this from a few other artists as well, at the end of these enormous, prolific periods of creating, you've got a lot of expense.

You sit and wait to see what's sold, and then sometimes, not always, you have to wait a very long time for the check or the money to come into your bank account. And it's very kind of boom or bust or feast or famine if that's your only income stream. But I think a lot of the really good galleries are quite accepting now of our artists selling work themselves and by the galleries.

If it's a mutually beneficial relationship where the artist honors, if a piece has been sold in the gallery are, where did you see it? Okay. If you sold it in the gallery, then. Uh, you know, the commission still goes to the gallery if you saw it there first, and that's, it's just out of respect, isn't it? 

[00:34:58] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Um, and keeping your prices the same so that you're not undercutting the gallery, like all that.

I understand all of that stuff that I, because I've done coaching for artists, for selling, and. That was like a really important part that I would watch them. They're like, okay, these didn't sell in my last show. Now you can get 'em for 50% off. And I'm like, you're not working with our gallery anymore?

Yeah, no, no, no, no. That's not fair. Then everyone will just wait until the show's over and have you do a fire sale. Now, if I'm selling my own work and then I wanna put it on sale, that's totally different when you're working with a gallery. Definitely have to respect that relationship. 

[00:35:37] Amanda Heath: Yeah. Yeah. And if it works both ways, then it can be a really beautiful relationship.

Right. Um, but yeah, for me, I'm a little bit of a control freak and I love having complete control of my website, my email list, and the direction and the decisions, you know, what art I want to make instead of being pigeonholed to produce a certain kind of work for a gallery. 

[00:35:59] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Oh, that's a very good point.

Because what happens is the gallery comes to expect and their customers come to expect a very specific style, and it may come down to we only want red trees from you and then next. 

[00:36:13] Amanda Heath: And that's not why we became an artist, is it? 

[00:36:15] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Right. So I wanna be able to not even make trees if I don't want to.

Right. Yes. So, yeah, I love the freedom that being my own. Mm-hmm. A business owner gives me. Yeah. And I think most artists now are so aware that we kind of have to do it ourselves, and we can be very successful if we do it ourselves, but then they get stuck and they're like, don't even know where to begin.

In fact, I had someone ask me the other day, like, I like to pose out like, what's your biggest challenge right now? Well, I can't even, when I post it on Instagram, I don't seem to be selling anything. And then I look and I'm like, well, you've only had six posts total this whole year 

[00:36:54] Amanda Heath: And none of them mention anything that's for sale.

[00:36:57] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Right? And, and I'm like, so if you're not consistently showing up and being your own best advocate, then how are you supposed to build a business? So that's the key is then we get into this. Okay. I love making art. I've decided that I wanna make it as a living, not just for fun, not just as a hobby, which is totally acceptable.

Yeah. There are plenty of people who don't need to make money off of their art. A hundred percent. 

[00:37:21] Amanda Heath: That's great. Right. 

[00:37:22] Kellee Wynne Conrad: But I'm gonna guess that a lot of people who are listening right now, they're listening because they want to improve their odds of having a successful business. So let's just say most of our listeners want a successful business.

[00:37:35] Amanda Heath: Yeah. Having a job where you get to do what you love every single day. I mean, you just, there is nothing better than that is 

[00:37:41] Kellee Wynne Conrad: there. Right? So then what do you do? Are you ready? Do you even know? Like, that's the part. It's like, I love art, I see what other people are doing. I just don't know how to start a business doing that.

And I'm assuming that with your, passion to profit, that's what you teach. 

[00:37:59] Amanda Heath: Yeah, and it's, it is about being very realistic as well, and I'm always very honest with people, because people say I wanna make an income for my art, and I, I make sure that they know it is hard work. And it doesn't just happen overnight.

You know, we see all these success stories on socials where it's like, oh, I made 30,000 in my first week of business. It does happen occasionally, but actually it's about being willing to fail to get back up again, to be resilient, to be consistent, like you said, on socials and to just be in it for the long haul.

 And for the passion to profit program, what I did is I broke it down into bite-sized chunks because for me, I know there are memberships out there, which are really fantastic. Um, and I kind of was a in a few to begin with, but my mind doesn't work like that. I like to know. In sequence what needs to be done.

Because I do believe there are things that you have to do first before the next thing. For example, you don't want to go out and start attracting your ideal customer if your website isn't ready and your positioning isn't clear or you don't have a social media presence because they'll say to you, well, where can I see your work?

And you don't have anything ready, so you've lost them. So I built it kind of step by step, you know, to help them get crystal clear on their positioning, what they're about, what kind of business they want, and then build the assets i e, you know, the photographs, the social media strategy, the website, the email list, and then implement the actual marketing plan.

'cause a lot of people think it just happens. They post and sales happen. Yeah. And 

[00:39:40] Kellee Wynne Conrad: actually no, that's not how it actually happens. So your heart, everyone, but you can't just build it and expect them to come. You actually have, it used to be like that. 

[00:39:52] Amanda Heath: Yeah. So a lot of people think, and, and rightly so I did as well, this is not a criticism that you have your website and you turn it live and all of a sudden the floodgates open and international sales come in.

And it's not, I describe it as a car that needs fuel and that the marketing strategy and your marketing plan is the fuel that goes into the car, otherwise it doesn't go anywhere. So we build marketing systems that a lot of them are automated so that you don't have to spend all of your time answering emails, chasing customers, doing all the selling, right?

Because it's just not what we're born to do. So if we put systems in place that actually do a lot of that for us and build our list on autopilot, then we can go into the studio, we can create and we can show up for those really important connections and, and build there. So that's really what passions profit is about.

It's a step by step process about. Building a, a really robust, profitable business that stands a test of time rather than, Hey, you know, go out and post in Facebook groups and you're gonna get some sales. Yes, you will get some sales, but it's spammy and it's short lived. And when other people start to do that, you'll have no business because it's expired, it's, it's in its sell by date.

[00:41:11] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Um, so yeah, I think that sell by date was a few years ago. 

[00:41:15] Amanda Heath: And it's hard. Do you know? Yeah. It's, it's so painful to see it still happening and people say, well, if you message a hundred people, then at least five of them are gonna buy from you. It's like, yes, but in the process, you're gonna piss 95% of them off by just whole DMing them or spamming them in a Facebook group. And so, yeah, 

[00:41:37] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I just don't, yeah. Well, it's better to create. Like you said, a systems that work for you and then to create raving fans that you don't have to go knocking down their door.

That's not sustainable at all. 

[00:41:49] Amanda Heath: No, and it's not pleasurable for our soul, is it? It's an artist. No. 

[00:41:53] Kellee Wynne Conrad: And this is what gives selling a bad name, because that's not really the ideal way to sell, sell, think for This is something that I've been talking about a lot lately with my group and just in conversation is think about a time where you bought something, you were so elated that you got to buy it.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. So selling doesn't have to be scammy or spammy or whatever. It can actually be serving and giving people exactly what they want. But I guess the key is to actually have the product, because a lot of artists don't realize you have to have a lot of product in order to sell a lot and make a lot of money.

You can't just have one or two paintings. You have to have a lot of product, and you have to spend a lot of time creating and building relationships. Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:39] Amanda Heath: Yeah, you have to be visible first of all. And then you have to, like you said, build relationships, nurture those relationships, you know, have conversations with people even though it's online and social, et cetera.

And those conversations turn into connections and then the connections turn into the sales. Um, but yeah, it is, it's, 

[00:42:58] Kellee Wynne Conrad: There are a lot of steps to it and we're just kind of glossing over the general idea. I will admit that. But it is, I think when it comes down to it, it's pretty much the same in every industry.

Be really good at what you do. And as I've heard, be so good they can't ignore you. I don't remember, I've heard that quote. Be really good at what you do and continue to show up. You're in it for the long hill. You have to just keep showing 

[00:43:25] Amanda Heath: up. Yeah. And know what makes you unique. Yeah. And speak about that with passion and just be visible and be consistent.

And, you know, there's a lot more to it than that. It's a whole ecosystem. Right. But, um, done the right way. There's no reason you can't make five K, 10 k, whatever kinda months, but aside from the money, you know, the, the money's fantastic. It's more the creative freedom that once you know you've got sales coming in, you know, you've got a big email list that's engaged.

Mm-hmm. And so if you release an offer, you know a certain percentage is, is gonna sell, then that kind of peace of mind is priceless for you to then go back into the studio and start creating work without any financial pressure. 

[00:44:09] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. What would you say is the biggest challenge for the, Customers that you serve, your clients, what do you see that's holding them back the most from taking that step into full financial freedom?

[00:44:25] Amanda Heath: I think a lot of time it's mindset. Because we don't believe that we're capable or we think too small. Small. And I see artists saying, oh, I had love to make a few sales here and there, or to be, you know, to be represented by this gallery or whatever. And I think that's great, but that's a tiny piece of what's possible.

Think much, much bigger and you know, you'll achieve so much more. But I think we hold ourselves back just because of the, the nature of the industry. 

[00:44:59] Kellee Wynne Conrad: yeah. Is it possible that many creatives and artists don't even realize what's out there for them? Maybe it's mindset, but maybe it's an unaware of, I mean, I don't think that they understand how huge the industry is and how many ways that you can make money as an artist and how many people you can connect with, and how often businesses and designers and hotels and, and even, you know, I mean, industry wide.

There's just so many opportunities and I just don't think that a lot of times I think that the best that they're gonna do is just post a few paintings on Instagram and that's it. 

[00:45:42] Amanda Heath: Yeah. Yeah. And one of the other things actually you've just reminded me is. I think one of the biggest blocks is we jump around too much.

Mm-hmm. So we see an artist having success with this. So we try a little bit of it and we dip our toes in, and then we see somebody else doing a workshop and, oh, maybe I should do a workshop. And we do that. And the truth is, is that creative brain again, isn't it jumping? Yeah. But the truth is we don't ever master anything or give it time to come to fruition.

So we jump, jump and jump and jump and jump and then think why is it not working? Instead of getting absolute. 

[00:46:18] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Absolutely. It's the consistency of trying the same thing over again, seeing what worked, what didn't work. Doing the debrief, looking at the numbers, and then doing it again. Great. The first time you launched, you didn't sell anything.

Maybe you sold something. How about trying it again and then learning more techniques and doing it again? I've seen. Friends even do this. Like, well, I put it out there and I didn't. And I'm like, why don't you follow the techniques that you know that work? You need this much of a runway. You need to have this many people paying attention.

You need to talk about it this much. And you disappeared for three months and no one heard from you. And then you showed up and said, okay, I'm doing this thing. So it's in that consistency and that repeat consistency, repeat, whether it's you decide you wanna do an art course or you wanna teach a workshop, or you wanna be a coach, or you wanna work with designers or you wanna get your work licensed.

Whatever it is, it's the repeat. And I was actually very guilty of that for, so many years. 

[00:47:21] Amanda Heath: Oh, me too. I had so many coaches and I tried so many different methods initially, but now I say, Being a business, you know, entrepreneur in the art field is a bit like being a mad scientist.

You run a test, you look at the results and then you go, right, okay, what worked? What didn't work? Why let me try this. Let me tweak that phrase. Let me just do something differently and run it again. But too often, and it's such a shame, really talented artists try something once they fail in their eyes and they disappear and they kind of tail between the legs and it's so easy to do that 'cause it's so close to our heart. Instead of going, right, hang on, what went wrong then? What could I do better next time? And I've even had artists run ads, which I never get them to run ads until the organic strategies are working well.

Right. It's a waste of money. And I had one, um, student run ads and she was like, oh, it didn't go very well. And I said, let me have a look at your results. And I looked and I was like, That was phenomenal and you turned it off. That was gold. And she ran it, I think, for three days. And the results, like if she'd have kept it running for two weeks, there would've been sale after sale, after sale.

But she turned it off because it didn't happen instantly. And I think in the day of instant gratification, like we're in now mm-hmm. Social media, you know, dopamine, everything has to happen yesterday. We think that if we try something once and it doesn't work, we're a failure or we shouldn't be doing this.

And it's absolutely, I, I failed a million times, right? Epically. 

[00:49:01] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. 

[00:49:01] Amanda Heath: Yeah. It's just a streak. 

[00:49:03] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Actually, there was one time I thought that I would represent a bunch of other artists. I was working with a gallery, I was a gallery manager. I said, all right, I'm gonna bring in a bunch of artists. I'm gonna represent them and I'm gonna bring their portfolios to designers.

I worked at that for like six months. If I had kept going after two or three years, it would've been an incredibly profitable business. Now, I will say, sometimes you can get to a point and say, I don't think this is for me. Exactly. That's fine. Even if it was going well, I'm not gonna continue to do that.

[00:49:36] Amanda Heath: Yeah, that's valid. 

[00:49:37] Kellee Wynne Conrad: But there are also plenty of other things where it's like, okay, there was one time I was making this style of art and it just was wildly popular. So why two months later did I change styles again? And I loved making, it wasn't that I didn't even love making it. Why? Because a gallery said, we're having a show and the theme is this.

Will you make artwork for that? Yeah. And it's like, oh no. What I should say is, this is the artwork I make. Does it fit with your theme? Sounds strong. Yeah. Right. So it's this consistency. Now I've learned that so much better since I've been coaching and teaching online, showing up and repeating a launch, repeating, um, methods of selling those.

Now I see, and I consistently do over and over again. And now I, I am not saying that I never changed my mind, but it's in that repeat. And that's exactly the same, same thing. I say, all right, great. You launched a course, it went this well, now let's do it again. It's the second year you're doing it. Do it again.

And see what did you learn from the last time? How many people were on your list? How many converted? Yeah. So that means if that many people were on your list and that many people ended up buying by doing X, Y, and Z, next year you do X, Y, and Z. You just get more people on your list and then more people will buy.

[00:50:54] Amanda Heath: Yeah. And I think sometimes, uh, and this is one thing that artists are definitely not aware of, it is a numbers game a lot of the time. So if you, and, and this is being very flippant with the numbers, but if you get, you know, Your post in front of 500 people on social media, let's say, and a hundred of them, you know, engage with a post and a certain number of those.

Join your email. Let's say it's 50 of them. From those 50, you can probably expect one sale if you make an offer. And so it's like, okay, so if I triple that and I get 150 through onto my email list, then potentially I've got sales, right? Using Facebook ads when I know what I'm doing. Hang on a. X amount of sales.

And once you've got the underlying system right, the pipe work with no leaks in it. 

[00:51:46] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Right? Exactly. You have to know that it converts. Yes. Before you put the fuel on the fire. Otherwise you're putting money on something that doesn't work. 

[00:51:53] Amanda Heath: Right. You just pour you down the drain. That's it. And you can turn the tap on then and say, I'd like more customers.

Facebook. Can you go out and show me another half a million? Which is nothing of my ideal customers who have this interest. You know this particular characteristic, and it goes out and does the work for you and brings you half a million. Right question. 

[00:52:12] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Right, but that's advanced. It's for artists or for business or entrepreneurs.

That's a little bit advanced. And so the part that's I wanna reiterate is we test the first, we see that our, everything's in place. We have dialed in on our art. We have the the website set up so that people are like, yes, I wanna be on this email list. Yeah. You're sending out emails that people actually wanna read.

You're continuing to get engagement. You know that when you do these things, a sale will happen. Yes. Once they're in that, then you just fuel up doing more of that, and then new things will come along and maybe some things will die. Like the whole idea of just go in and talk to people in Facebook groups and spam them.

That doesn't work anymore. You'll get kicked right out of the Facebook group. It worked once before. Then TikTok came along and everyone's like, you gotta make reels and toss and whatever. And that's. Actually becoming more difficult now to actually find, so there are certain techniques or, or strategies if you will, or tactics that might have to change.

Mm-hmm. But what stays the same as you? You're passionate about your art and your message, right? 

[00:53:21] Amanda Heath: Yeah. And also what stays the same as your website and your email list, they're your two assets. Yes. What kind of trendy kind of hack and and fashionable think might be working at the moment? As long as you are visible and you have a way of getting people into your community and you provide value to them, you'll make sales.

[00:53:42] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Absolutely. And that's it. That's the only part that you own out of all of it. 'cause it doesn't matter. The platforms change, the tactics change. One day it spreads. The next day Twitter kills itself. Yeah. You know, nobody wants to go to TikTok, but everyone's now on YouTube and next thing you know, there's something called Lemon eight and I refuse to do one.

I know thing. And then what was old is new again, and now we're back on Pinterest and it's like, okay, wait. Yes. What stays the same is mm-hmm. Getting people to my site and getting them on my email list and actually providing something useful when I show up in their inbox. Yeah, yeah. Boom. That to me, my philosophy is everything we do is to get people closer to you so that you can communicate through your own channels.

[00:54:31] Amanda Heath: And if your messaging is on point and you're attracting your ideal customers, rather than selling to them, right, they naturally kinda gravitate towards you. And then you don't have to rely on algorithms, people changing their priorities.

Because if your entire business is on Etsy, there's nothing wrong with Etsy. But if your entire business is on a third party site, or you don't have a website and you're only selling on Instagram, I've known lots of artists like you have. Yeah. Who've had 30, 50,000 followers, accounts closed. No reason.

[00:55:02] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. Well, that's why I ended up doing a. pay them to play to verify my account so that that won't happen. But what will happen is you can have 65,000 and your account just is like, boom. Nothing's really happening because, and let's be honest, when we say the algorithms change, people's interests change.

Yes. You get bored changes and what you're putting out there changes. And maybe people are just, people who are on your account aren't, can't even be bothered with looking at Instagram. So those things I don't have. Whereas it might've been once upon a time, 30, 40, 50,000 people would see a post, and now maybe 5,000 will.

But you know what happens when I send out an email, I can count on between 40 and 60% open rate every single time. 

[00:55:48] Amanda Heath: That's brilliant. That's brilliant. 

[00:55:50] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. Yeah. And so when I know that that reach is incredible. So it's about creating value and knowing that there's a reason why people wanna be there on that inner circle.

[00:56:00] Amanda Heath: Yeah, and they, they're more committed. Somebody on social is a Tom's length. Somebody on your email list has said, yes, I wanna be part of what you're offering. I'm a little bit closer, so it's a higher commitment. So yeah, for me, tomorrow, if my social media accounts disappeared, I would still have a business because of email list and the website.

But, it's so easy to get caught up in followers and vanity metrics and reels and latest trends and things. And actually sometimes you have to stop and go, hang on a minute, who's directing my business? Is it reels? Is it, you know, what was that platform? I can't remember where people went into a room and, 

[00:56:38] Kellee Wynne Conrad: uh, can't remember.

Oh, clubhouse. Say Clubhouse. Yeah. Paris.

[00:56:46] Amanda Heath: Just another whim. And I think to build a business on any of those is just, it's really dangerous. 

[00:56:52] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. And I actually know many artists who are like, no, I don't have an email list. I just, I do great. Every time I post something, I sell. And I'm like, but how much are you selling? And this is the part that I also pause at.

I'm like, fabulous. You've been selling, but are you still making a pauper's wage off your art when you could be making multiple six figures? 

[00:57:13] Amanda Heath: It's the opportunity lost, isn't it? Right. You're already selling on Instagram. You've proven you have product market fit. So take that now. Make it safer by developing your own website and email list and amplify it by 10, 15, 20 times and you've got a phenomenal business so you can go on holiday with your family, right?

You get more time off. You've got freedom, you can do courses. It's, oh yeah. It's, 

[00:57:38] Kellee Wynne Conrad: it's been, it's given me the ability to pay for my kids' college. They don't have any college debt, thank you. In America, we still have to pay out the nose for that. Medical bills that come up. and other like things that I actually worry about my parents as they're aging and it's like, oh, wait a minute.

I've been able to make a business that gives me all kinds of financial freedom to support my family and to, like, you go on holiday and like, The way my mind has shifted since I've been able to build a business and find success in it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Once you learn these principles, once you're in it for the long haul, once you do the repeat processes, everything changes everything.

[00:58:20] Amanda Heath: It really does because, uh, uh, like I said, I was a single mom for a long time, and even though I've had businesses, there have been periods where I have been really on the breadline, where it's like, okay, okay, you know, how are we gonna make the bills this month kind of thing. Whereas, and that you can never, especially as an artist, you can't create your best work from that kind of no energetic stance.

Whereas once you know all your bills are taken care of, you can create amazing work, so there's no pressure and you can give back. You know, you can do all sorts of things that you just can't possibly do when you don't have. That flexibility to fall back on. 

[00:58:59] Kellee Wynne Conrad: But you have to know that it's possible. And I think that's what we were starting this with, that mindset of knowing what's possible for you.

So I have a few single mothers in my coaching program and it is so amazing to me to see the shift. And we've only been working for like, I think we're in month five now since this group has started with me. And one of 'em, she just launched an offer and she's like, I've made more now than I ever made in a whole year of teaching.

[00:59:33] Amanda Heath: Amazing. And it's totally possible, totally doable. 

[00:59:36] Kellee Wynne Conrad: And so like when I look at 'em and I say, okay, now I know how important this is, because you get to provide for you and your kids, you can finally take a holiday. You can finally like have a sense of ownership and breathe. And it's like, it was just about me saying, you have talent now, let's. Get that talent out there into the world. 

[00:59:58] Amanda Heath: Yeah. And stay focused. Don't lose hope when it doesn't happen instantly. Don't lose hope when you have your first failure, because I don't know a single entrepreneur out there that hasn't failed a gazillion times. Oh, right. But it's just getting back up and, and dusting yourself off and starting again.

But it's, the possibilities, income wise and lifestyle wise they're really limitless, I think, for, for artists that have a talent. Yeah. 

[01:00:23] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. They're limitless. Yeah. How exciting is that? So where can, where can everyone find you, Amanda? 

[01:00:31] Amanda Heath: So, you can find me on Instagram, uh, @amandaheathart, and on there, are some links in my bio.

The actual website is Thriving Artist Business School, and it's shortened to ta. So aen align and on there there are lots of free resources. There's a free masterclass that introduces people to my kind of way of teaching and building that robust and profitable, sustainable business. Yeah, and lots of things on there.

Lots of exciting things to come as well. There's a new premium level program for established artists who are ready to scale and yeah, really, really fly and get more independence. 

[01:01:15] Kellee Wynne Conrad: That's exciting because if there's one thing, I absolutely believe getting the mentorship so that you don't have to be spinning your wheels and taking the next six years.

Trying to figure out how to make an income. You can be doing that this year. You just get the right help. Right. 

[01:01:33] Amanda Heath: It's just getting the support, it's getting the roadmap and somebody there to say, when you say, I tried this and it went wrong, it's a, an external set of eyes to say, ah, okay, I can see what happened.

Let me help you get over that road bump a lot faster and a lot easier, and people think it's expensive, but it saves so much time and so much money and so much energy in the long run. Mm-hmm. When you actually, mm-hmm. Put your trust. I mean, the amount I've spent on mentors this year is, I don't even want to look, but I know it's an investment.

[01:02:07] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Right? Because it takes you to the next level. Right. 

[01:02:10] Amanda Heath: And it would take me three times as long to get there without them. So, 

[01:02:13] Kellee Wynne Conrad: and that's how I felt. And I know that that's what our business model is. But honestly, when we see the results with our, clients, it's like, it's exciting. And I'm very, very excited to see, 

[01:02:26] Amanda Heath: oh, it's the best feeling in the world when they, when they start to get results.

And it's like, you've got the results for yourself. It's even more exciting because you can see that they're on the path then to what's possible for them. Yeah. And it's just that very first stage. It's, it's unbelievably exciting. Yeah. 

[01:02:43] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. Exciting. Alright, I like to end with one question that I ask everybody.

What is your big audacious 

[01:02:50] Amanda Heath: dream? Oh gosh, my big audacious dream. That's a good, good question. Hmm.

Wow. I feel like I never have huge ones. I have like the next step, but I just want, and I know this sounds possible, a little bit cheesy, but I want as many artists as possible to get outta the mindset of thinking it's not possible and staying in jobs that are soul sucking and not rewarding to have that flip, see what's possible and actually make it happen for me, if I can leave that as a legacy, you know, I helped a thousand artists leave jobs that they hate and actually make a full-time income doing what they love.

Then. Yeah, my work is gone. That, that just feels really exciting.


[01:03:49] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I love it. Yeah. Thank you so much, Amanda. It was such a great conversation today. 

[01:03:56] Amanda Heath: You what? I've loved it. I've really, really enjoyed it. So thank you so much for having me. 

[01:04:00] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Okay. Till the next time. Bye. 

[01:04:03] Amanda Heath: Excellent. Thank you. Bye.


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