How Taking Risks Led Louise Fletcher to her Popular Online Course and a 4000 Person Membership

[00:00:00] Made Remarkable Intro: Welcome back. And thanks for tuning in to the Made Remarkable podcast. Hosted by Kellee Wynne. On today's episode, Kellee will be speaking with Louise Fletcher. An artist,' teacher and co-host of one of our favorite art podcasts, Art Juice. 

Louise is here to share how she built her business from the ground up, the teachers that inspired her and how to believe in yourself every step of the way. 

This conversation will spark inspiration and joy as Kellee and Louise discuss their insights on business, their journeys through art and all of the ways that they celebrate their successes. Because when you're living your big audacious dreams, that is something to be celebrated. Don't forget to check out the show notes and transcripts for more information about Louise promotional offers and any other links or names mentioned in the episode. 

Kellee loves connecting with listeners. So don't be shy. Reach out on social media and together let's build a community that celebrates the remarkable. If you want to be notified every time a new episode hits the airwaves, just hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you so much for listening and now let's get to the good part. 

Introducing Kellee Wynne and Louise Fletcher. 

[00:01:10] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Well, hello. Hello. I'm Kellee Wynne, artist, author, mentor, fiercely independent mother and wife, and the founder of a multiple six figure creative business, and I love my life. But I've been where you're at. I was slogging away at this art business thing for more than a decade. Once I finally connected with my true calling, unlocked the magic of marketing, and built a system that could scale while I realized I could make an impact and make a substantial income, I'm finally running a business that I love and it makes all the difference in the world.

My biggest dream is to help you do the same. Let this podcast be the catalyst to your biggest success. You already have it in you because you are made remarkable.

okay. I have Louise on and I'm excited about it because we've only really been able to connect one other time when we were doing the virtual arts summit in 2021 together. 

[00:02:05] Louise Fletcher: Oh, that's right. And I don't think we spoke in the way we are now. I think we did everything by email and I did Yeah. Class for you in that as part of a lot of other people and Yeah.

That's the only time we've, I've heard you talk to Alice before. Alice mentions you sometimes Alice. Is my podcast cohost for people who don't know. But anyway, yes, first time seeing each other face to face, I think. 

[00:02:28] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I love it. I'm so excited to get to know you better this way because we have a lot in common and then we also have different paths that we've been kind of side by side on the road to business, entrepreneurship, artists extraordinaire, whatever it is that we're trying to accomplish every year.

We're just making the next step. Right? 

[00:02:49] Louise Fletcher: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And who knows what we're gonna be next year? 

[00:02:53] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Who knows right? Everything changes so fast with the way things have been lately. Like, I mean, I don't know. I'm just taking 

[00:03:01] Louise Fletcher: No, I'm looking at the moment at an outside studio space, this does have a point. And one of the things is how long of a lease do I want? And part of my brain was going, well, if I don't get tied in for this long, they may want to throw me out, or they may want to, I need the security of knowing. And then I thought back five years ago when I became serious about my art, how much things have changed since then.

Mm-hmm. I can't know what I'm gonna want five years from now. Right? Like, I might not wanna be in that space. So all that trying to be secure that we do, trying to like, okay, I need to look after my interest and make sure I'm secure in this legal contract. But I don't know that I won't want to just leave after two years.

And so none of what we're doing, well, certainly for me, none of what I'm doing now was envisaged five years ago. I couldn't have imagined it. And so I can only assume that what I'll be doing in five years, if I'm lucky enough to still be healthy enough, will be different again. 

[00:04:09] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I imagine it's gonna be different because how many things have happened in the last five years that we couldn't have even anticipated?

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then on top of that, our own dreams and goals, our family situations change, our own personal growth happens. I don't know about you, but being a business owner has grown me in ways that nothing else has grown me before, like mm-hmm. Really stretch the capacity of who I am, how I show up, what I believe in myself, what I know, and what I have to teach myself all the time just to grow the business.

That's just in and of itself over the last five, six years has just radically shift who I am. Yes. How do you feel about business and how it's impacted you as a person? 

[00:04:54] Louise Fletcher: Yeah, I've run my own business since 2003, but it wasn't always about art. So I've not worked. I'm totally unemployable now.

If I had to go for a job, I'd be useless. It's 20 years since I worked for someone else who told me what to do. So in that 20 years, yes. The things I have had to learn and the things that have changed, you know, I had to learn Google just on the practical level. I had to learn Google AdWords, I had to learn SEO and none of that I use now because things have, then social media came, I learned blogging on Typepad and then blogging, moved onto WordPress, and then I stopped blogging and moved onto social media and now make YouTube videos.

And so technologically and, and Businesswise, I've had to learn a lot. But also, yes, as a person, if I think about the changes, because as an employee, I was fairly senior towards the end of my career, but still there's a boss. There's still someone who sets the agenda and that's what you are working towards and then to be suddenly on your own and okay, it's all up to me now.

I remember in our first business, which I ran with my husband at the time, we got a website made and then we went, oh, okay, now what? We've got a website, but no one knows where it is. And we had to start learning all of that. And so it's just been a constant journey of learning. And I would say it just struck me, as I said, all this thing it's given me more than anything else is ability to constantly be creative and adapt because you have to be. 'cause oh, right now, Google AdWords used to cost me 5 cents a click and now it's $5 a click and it's not profitable anymore. So what can I do next? And you know, now I'm bored with that.

So what can I do instead? The constant adaptation and now we're moving into AI and I know whatever that's gonna bring, and there'll be more changes, more adaptation, and you don't have the luxury, which you do as a nine to five employee of going, well, someone else will worry about that. I'm just coming into my job until someone tells me I'm laid off.

I'll be here until then pushing papers around and doing whatever I used to do when I first had a job. That's not the luxury. You've got to be thinking, okay, what am I going to do and how am I gonna make it work? 

[00:07:22] Kellee Wynne Conrad: You have to continually be on the top of new trends and education. And I know clocking in for me was always challenging because I'm a free spirit and many artists are 

there are certain types of personalities that do really well in a work environment versus others who are like you said, unemployable. At this point. I'm not sure I could handle having a boss tell me what to do, although I hired a manager to tell me what to do. But that's a different kind of story.

[00:07:49] Louise Fletcher: Yes, I have somebody who tells me what to do in my own business. Yes. And I'm very grateful for her telling me what to do. 

[00:07:55] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yes. But that's very different than working for somebody else. And I know the advantages, especially hear from my sons who are like, I just want to clock in, clock out, and go home and not have to think about work.

But as an entrepreneur or business owner, even an artist, you never really stop thinking about what you do. 

[00:08:14] Louise Fletcher: No. No, and I'm not the archetypal artist person in that I was always hardworking. Not that artists aren't hardworking, but I was also always dutiful. So whatever job I had, I worked really hard at it.

Tried to please my boss, real people pleaser, you know, always did my best and over and above and, and tried to impress everyone. Spent so much time working on pointless things, just to try and impress somebody who I was working for or to, do the job well or whatever. So I was always quite structured and organized as an employee, but by the time I stopped being an employee, so I would've been age 40.

Yeah, I was age 40 when I left my last job, I was getting burnt out from that because the truth is I'm probably not that. Inside, you know? Yeah. And probably more like you inside, but being a dutiful, good girl, doing all the things I'm supposed to do, I didn't even know that I was supposed to be more free-spirited.

So I was getting to the point of total burnout, boredom, anger frustration, you know, ill health, because it wasn't for me that life. But I had always thought, I remember my ultimate ambition when I was in college. 'cause art did not seem like a possibility in my upbringing, in my family. That just wasn't what you did.

My thought was big corner office in a company some kind of executive, and that is exactly what I ended up with. And at one point in Manhattan, two windows, you know, overlooking that skyline of Manhattan. Everything I thought would make me happy. And of course, It didn't, 'cause it was a really boring job.

I worked for a company that sold water meters to apartment buildings and I was the human resources director. It was not exciting work. So everything I thought I wanted, I got to and went. Hmm. And the thing I realized is, and not to be offensive to anyone I ever worked with, but I think this is just true of humans.

I got to the top of the company and realized nobody knows what they're doing. Like I thought these people were the really clever people, but actually they're just stupid as well. They're like me. They don't know what they're doing either. So all my ambition for that world went, and I had to make new ambitions, and so having my own business was for a while.

Interesting. But the business I was in, I was helping people find jobs based on my prior HR experience, so, mm-hmm. Again, nothing creative. I never allowed that part of myself to really be anything, come out as anything other than a hobby, occasional hobby, because I thought that you can't make money as an artist.

It's such a cliche, but you can, it's true. How can you, it's. 

[00:11:21] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. I mean we see that different now and I think it's helpful with social media and the way we're globally connected, that we can see success now more easily than we did, all the way up. Yes. Even till the 20 teens where it was like still this like fantasy job.

You think that you're gonna get some loft in New York and that's the only way you're gonna make it as an artist. And now we know there are so many different paths. Yeah. What, I mean, you ended up living in the United States and Canada, correct? Mm-hmm. Yeah. How long ago was it that you came back to the uk?

[00:11:54] Louise Fletcher: I came back in 2012, so I had left in 1989 and I was in Canada for six years in Toronto and then moved to New York, or we lived just outside New York, but worked in Manhattan. Mm-hmm. And. About 2012. And then worked from home with my own business for the last 10 years of that. But I just started to get homesick and my family were getting older and all of a sudden all the things I ran away to go get away from, I wanted to get back to, which I think a lot of people experienced.

Yeah. And so, yeah, 2012 is when I came back. 

[00:12:32] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Where is the journey to finding yourself as an artist? I know I've heard a lot about like how you would draw and do other things, but when was it that you actually took the plunge into painting? 

[00:12:48] Louise Fletcher: So I started drawing yeah, and then within a few years I was trying watercolors under the ridiculous idea that that would be easier than acrylics.

That's what I thought. And 

[00:12:59] Kellee Wynne Conrad: obviously straight to all of you listening, watercolor is not easier than acrylic. 

[00:13:05] Louise Fletcher: No and that is why my results were always so disappointing and why I was never happy. And so I flitted around. It was very much, even when we returned home, I was still doing the helping people find jobs business, which was mainly American clients.

But I just did it from here. So it was a part-time thing. In the evenings I was, and weekends I was exploring painting. I went to acrylics. When I took a class, I was doing life drawing classes in the evenings locally, which I really loved. And I started painting watercolors there. Then I went on a weekend course with a local artist.

Her name is Leslie Birch, b i r c h, and she's all over Instagram and she's a really lovely, abstract landscape artist. And she did this two day workshop in a church hall where she brought a load of materials, a load of paper, gave us everything to use, and then the two days was just playing with exercises that she set.

But oh my God, all of a sudden it just lit light bulbs in my head that. Oh, like all those effects people get in their paintings. They're not planning it all and then executing it, they're doing this, they're messing about with materials and making discoveries. Mm. So I can do that. Like I thought you had to have some kind of God-given talent, which I wasn't given.

And that two days with her, even though it was only two days, and then we went off back on our own. And subsequent to that, I took some online courses, including, I'm sure other people have mentioned, Nicholas Wilton, c v P. Mm-hmm. That was very important. But Leslie had already opened the door for me to realize that there was a way into this.

That was something I could do. And that realization forms everything that I do now as a teacher. Like that is what I want to give to other people. That feeling that. Right. It's not something that's locked to me. It's simply experimenting, playing and learning as you go. And there's no right and there's no wrong and there's no barriers and right.

Anyone can do it. That feeling. I remember I came home from that workshop on cloud nine, and I was on cloud nine for a few weeks because I just felt like, and that would've been 2017, and then I took Nicholas's course a few months after that at the beginning of 2018 where he taught a lot of the things I'd never learned about color.

Composition and, and just some really good solid principles that I could kind of hang my plane then onto these principles. And that was it. Those two people, Nicholas and Leslie really just gave me the keys. And once I was off and running, and I think you are like this, I discovered that I am one of those people who has to say what I've just learned.

Like if I've learned something, I have to tell you about it. Yeah. Yeah. And I enjoy telling you about it. And I enjoy seeing your face change the way mine did when I learned it, and I wanna now bring it to you. And so initially I just began helping people who were struggling. In Nicholas's class or with other things they were learning.

If I came across them online, I'd say, no, no, this is what he's saying. And I'd kind of explain it in my own way or, or This is the exercise, try this. And I started to make little YouTube videos to help people had come across or here's, this is what I mean. And that is just how my teaching started because I began to find my own way, what I wanted to teach people and my own way of expressing these things, which all art teachers are basically teaching the same things.

But I found my own way into it, and I found that as much as painting, I love teaching. So Yeah. Which I never knew I had. When we talk about business changing us, I didn't know I was good at teaching. I had never taught anyone anything. 

[00:17:19] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Now you have this huge. Following a huge business. I don't know how many members are in your art tribe.

[00:17:27] Louise Fletcher: We have 4,000 people at the moment. 

[00:17:30] Kellee Wynne Conrad: That's really incredible. I mean, that's how many people lives are changing on a regular basis plus your Yeah. Five year joy program. And I love that once that level was unlocked in your brain, it was like full force flooded in. And that's not really like, that long of a period, like I've been the entrepreneur, creative artist, off and on through my whole life. But I like you. It wasn't until like 2012 that I really started getting into to art and then developed it more and more, and then really, where is that timeline? It was like 2019 when you started really teaching, right?

[00:18:10] Louise Fletcher: Yep. Yeah, I think I did a beta version of my course in 2018 where I literally invented it. 'cause somebody. One person kept saying to me, when you teach something, I'm joining, whatever it is, just I'm joining. And she kind of inspired me to start thinking, could I, could I teach something? And, I did some personal development work with a coach who I'll mentioned because she's amazing.

Her name is Georgina Noel, n o e l. You can find her on Instagram or, or she has a website. And I'd done some coaching with her at a retreat, and she helped unlock some things. She's a life coach. She's a spiritual practitioner. She's a guru. She swears a lot.

She's full of life and personality. You can't put her into a box, but what she is is very good at releasing you from the beliefs that are holding you back. And I remember saying to her, well, I can't teach people if I'm gonna create classes, I'll have to find artists to teach it. She was like, do you?

And I was like, yes, because I haven't got anything to teach. And so we did work around some of my limiting beliefs, and I've told this story many times, but the idea for my course literally dropped in my head one day while I was walking my dog. And it came as if it were being downloaded from, from the internet.

I was like, somebody must have invented this before because it's all organized in my brain. Like, and it's got a title, like the title, find Your Joy, the subjects, which over the years have changed and evolved. But this first version of it, I didn't have anything with me. No pen, no phone, nothing. I was like, I can't write this down.

I hope I remember it when I get back and I got back home and said to my husband and a friend who was here, oh, I'm going to, I think I'm gonna teach a course. And they were like, alright. Don't get too disappointed if people don't join up. You know, 

[00:20:11] Kellee Wynne Conrad: my favorite. Don't, 

[00:20:13] Louise Fletcher: don't your hand artist. 

[00:20:16] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Get hope. Blessed you.

And, and it's like, you guys, whatever, you don't have any idea. 

[00:20:23] Louise Fletcher: You don't understand. Don't. And do you know what? I had that feeling like I, you don't understand this is gonna work. I know it is. Mm-hmm. I had, a Facebook following by that point of, I don't know how many, it was nowhere near what it is now, but I said to those people, a few hundred, maybe 500 people and I said, I'm gonna do a course.

I'm gonna do it cheap. I dunno what I'm doing. I'm gonna just wing it. Which I now learned since is a way of doing things that people teach. But I didn't know that. I just was making it up. 

[00:20:55] Kellee Wynne Conrad: It's one of the most sensible things to do if you want to start a new businesses to beta or how do you say it?

Beta. Beta 

[00:21:04] Louise Fletcher: test. Beta. Beta. Well, I do beta 'cause I'm half American, so. 

[00:21:08] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yes, that's right. Beta test it, trial run it just, Wing it and allow people to experience discovery with you. Honestly, you're gonna get the best feedback and you're gonna be able to figure out what you need to do to actually solidify your ideas into a proper program later.

Yes. So many people just develop it from the ground up and do the whole thing and they haven't gotten the feedback, they haven't seen what 

[00:21:31] Louise Fletcher: I think it has to be perfect. They think it has to be, they think it has to be perfect. Yeah. Film beautifully and, and that belief that it has to be perfect and it has to be filmed beautifully with the right lighting and soft focus and all that stops people from doing the thing.

That would give them the financial freedom to then do whatever they want and it just stops people in their tracks instead of just saying, I'm gonna show up. Like, I never have any makeup on. I've very rarely brushed my hair. I've kind of brushed my hair to this. So You are honored.

I've usually got paint all over me. The lighting, when I did it first was bad. 'cause of the space I had for my art wasn't well lit. And so I'm sure the videos that I filmed were really not very good from that perspective. But it wasn't expensive. I can't remember what I charged, but I made it cheap.

And I said to people, you are helping me. And people like that feeling. They like the feeling of, oh, I'm gonna help shape this. So when I wanna ask a question, I can ask anything and she'll make sure it gets covered. Mm-hmm. And by doing that, I was able to, as you say, get the, the right kind of content.

But the other thing that really helped me was I, I've kind of skipped a step in my story, which is for about a year before that idea dropped into my head, and this is why it wasn't a magic idea, I had been teaching people for free on Facebook ever since I took Nicholas's course. Really started with me helping people who were stuck.

Then it ended up with me making some videos. Then I started a free Facebook group and just had a few people come in and I did little lessons. Mm-hmm. And I was doing that because my previous business knowledge, I knew, and I still believe this and people have turned against it, but free teaching is the absolute best way to sell anything

[00:23:22] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I agree with you a thousand percent.

I still believe 

[00:23:25] Louise Fletcher: people learn if they like you or not. They learn. Either you turn people off and they go woo and leave, which is fine 'cause they're not your people or you draw people to you and they see you, they trust you. And even if, and this is the next part, even if you have given everything you know, away for free, you can still package it together into something and say, come and pay me for this.

I'm gonna do something and we're gonna do it together. And they will say, yes, please, and pay the money, because it's not actually the knowledge people are looking for. In separate pieces. They're looking for it all put together in an easy way. And they're looking for a feeling of going through it with you of mm-hmm.

Access to you somehow. 

[00:24:11] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Absolutely. It's like the experience versus drip here, bits and pieces. I can put it like everyone says that like, well, I can get all this knowledge on YouTube. We'll go ahead and see how far you get when you join a community. When you join a, program, like find your joy, the experience is gonna be completely different than bits and pieces.

Yes. Right. But the bits and pieces tell you whether or not, like you said, you like the teacher, you're interested in how they teach. You connect with the other people who connect with her or him. And it does, it absolutely changes. The trajectory of your business. I did the same thing through all of 2017. All I did was give, I gave free advice, free lessons, built my list, built a following, built connections, and by the time I was ready to make that first step, just like you, you did a beta run. I did a free challenge. When I was ready to open up my membership, which is obviously now closed, I had already done so much that people knew who I was and, and were ready for the next step.

[00:25:13] Louise Fletcher: Yeah, I mean, when I took Nicholas Wilton's course, so 2017, I was, I wouldn't say we were broke, but I would say we were living just paying our bills and managing and his course at the time. It must have been about 1400 pounds, I think it was $2,000. Mm-hmm. And I had just sold some paintings that equaled, 'cause I didn't charge very much for 'em in those days and equaled 1400 pounds.

And remember saying to my husband, I wanna take the 1400 pounds I've just made and I wanna spend it on this course with this guy I've only just found online. But the reason I knew I wanted to spend all that money, which to me was a huge amount of money. Mm-hmm. And our little security net was because as soon as I found Nicholas, I gobbled up everything he'd done for free.

Learned a lot from it and thought, right, if he can teach me all that for free, just think what he can teach me if I go into this program. And I was right about that, but there are other people who will watch him or me or you and go. No, I don't agree with anything that they say. And that's okay too.

It's okay. That's why I like the free teaching because it, it lets people go, actually no, I don't like you as a teacher. I wanna go somewhere else. And that's what we want. We only want people. Buying our things, if they're gonna enjoy it, get a lot out of it and tell other people we don't want. Right.

Unhappy people going around saying she was rubbish and, and the free teaching gives you that as well. So I think I've gone off on a tangent, but that's why I like free teaching. 

[00:26:48] Kellee Wynne Conrad: No, it makes total sense. Absolutely. I mean, there's 8 billion people in the world. Not every single one of them has to be for me.

Yeah, right. I just need a few, a handful of people who resonate and that's what I think is beautiful as more people are coming online to teach courses, to create programs to. Create events and experiences. There's enough for all of us. We just have to learn how to connect with our people. 

[00:27:13] Louise Fletcher: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:27:13] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I love that you took that risk.

There's another big risk that you took and it's pretty astounding, and then amazing what it's done for you, and that was reaching out and asking Alice to do a podcast with you. Yes. That's a huge risk because a lot of us say, okay, well here's someone I admire. Will they reject me? Yes. And in, in the long run, what it's done is created one of the top art podcasts in the entire world.

[00:27:40] Louise Fletcher: I know, and not only one of the top art podcasts, but I sent Alice something the other day. As I hear other podcast hosts talk about their numbers and how many people download their podcast, I realize that there are some award-winning podcasts with less listeners than we have. Yeah. And, uh, and podcasts that have sponsorships and all this stuff, which we never wanted sponsorships, but, um, I, I think, wow, we are really doing amazingly well because it's just a little niche podcast.

And yet, I mean, we're not up there with diary of a C E O or something, but we are, you know, doing really well. And that came about because I was thinking of ways, again, free teaching. How can I reach more people? And I thought podcasts, so it was four years ago, so I'd only done one version of my course and I wanted to get more well known.

Alice at that time had a bigger following than I did, and I had met her once 'cause I went to a retreat that she ran. Mm-hmm. But that's the only time I met her. She was someone I'd seen online and followed and I admired her out and I admired her teaching style and. I joined a free group that she was running, and then I joined a paid group, just joined the paid group that she set up the membership.

So basically I was Alice's student and now I'm thinking, well, if I want to do a podcast, I don't wanna just sit and talk to myself. I, I didn't think I could do that, so I thought, who would I like to do it with? The one person, for some reason, I could just picture a spark. And I knew Alice is very intelligent.

I knew we were quite different. I knew she's got a lot to say. I liked her as a person, and I just thought, yeah, Alice would be brilliant. But then exactly what you said, I thought, well, she'll never wanna do it with me because I had all sorts of reasons. I'm not on her level artistically. I don't have a good following.

 I'm a member in her group and will that offend other members? She might not want to offend other people. I had all these reasons and so I just thought, well, I'm just gonna send her a message on Facebook 'cause that's the least threatening thing you can do. She can always say no without having to look me in the eye and say anything.

Yeah. And I pinged her a message and I was making dinner and it pinged back in like two minutes and I dared didn't look at it because I thought it was gonna say, oh, thank you for thinking of me, Louise. But no, and I kept looking at the thing flashing, saying Alice messaged you. And I was like, and her message when I finally plucked up the courage, it said something like, oh wow, I've been wanting to do a podcast, but I wanted someone to do it with.

So yes. And. Someone said to me later, well, Alice manifested you asking her like she wanted to do a podcast. She wanted yeah, to do it with someone. So she manifested you asking that's why she popped into your head. So that's part, who knows, but you know, for whatever reason, why not. So for whatever reason it, so then what we did is we said, right, let's split the task between us.

So she did all the design, 'cause she's got a graphic design background. She did our graphics and things. I went off and found the platform and, we chose music together. We just basically did little bit. We just took a share and we still take a share. Now we split the editing between us. I write the descriptions, she does the graphics for the shows, and it works really well between us.

We are very different people and we've had to navigate that. Over four years. And I'm really proud of us because we've grown a lot as people we're two very strong-minded, intelligent, ambitious people who were almost exact opposites in almost every way. And apart from that, those things I just said, so there have been, I don't mean, I'd love to say to everyone, oh, there's big fights like the Beatles or something, but there isn't that.

But there's differences which in the beginning could get tricky. And now we've got really good, I think, at saying, at understanding each other and at listening to each other. An example of that is I like to be quite structured. We are gonna record on Thursday mornings at 10 o'clock.

I know where I am. If we're doing that, I can schedule the rest of my time. I can get some painting time in Alice. Alice, her personality is to not want to be structured. She hates being structured. And when she first began to say, I'd rather just do it when we feel like it, for me that felt like, Ugh.

But that didn't work for me. I like things to be on time, but I'm able to step back now and say, yeah, but Alice did it my way for three years and I've got to do it. I've got to be more flexible now because I understand that for her it's a choice of either have some variety or she will just get burnt out from it and, and we may get burnt out at some point anyway, but just that knowing.

And she also, likewise she's good at saying, right, do you wanna think about the next few weeks so we can like work out? 'cause she knows that I'm not very comfortable with like, oh, I don't know what's going on. So we've got good. That over time and we've got to know each other better. But when we started doing it, we really didn't know each other at all.

[00:33:12] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. Well and now we all sit down and listen to Art Juice and think, here are our two best friends talking. We feel like we're in the room with you having a cup of coffee or a drink or whatever. And it's like, so what happens next? And we love hearing the stories. We love hearing. Some of the conversations have been so like you, you just say, oh yeah, oh yeah, me too, me too.

Through the whole conversations and other conversations, especially some of the guests I remember just like where it's just like mind opening. You're like, okay, I didn't think of it that way. But it's just really, um, you know, I know that maybe at four years you're like, what else do we have to talk about?

But I don't think your audience even cares. They just wanna hear the journey that you're on. I'll say as a podcaster now, and I don't have the numbers that you have, but I do have a good, strong, loyal following and I appreciate them so much. And I'm still learning it because most of the time I'm doing it alone.

There is part of me that wishes that I was doing it with someone else all the time. Mm-hmm. But I know that it's making a difference in my business. Mm-hmm. And I can see the direct correlation. In fact, I've even said to Alice, I'm like, but your podcast is one of the reasons you guys are successful. Yeah.

And I have no doubt that consistency on doing something over and over and over again, and connecting, especially in a long format way with your audience, makes a huge difference in growing your business. So there's two things. You talked about giving away free information so much and it's not just like random free information, but you like gave some really solid lessons, you know, in those years.

Mm-hmm. Leading up to making your first software and now you're still giving and giving and giving and giving. And I think when we do that, the people who choose to come on that journey with us feel a lot more connected and it makes a big difference in our business. 

[00:34:59] Louise Fletcher: And I think the other thing I want to say about this, I agree totally and I often hear people say, ah, but yes, how do you sell art?

Because you focus in so much on building a following of artists, how do you sell paintings? And two artists is how I sell paintings. Like artists buy paintings. 

[00:35:21] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I mean because who, who appreciates art more than an artist. 

[00:35:24] Louise Fletcher: Yeah. And so for me it wasn't an, I'd love to say it was all a master plan that I designed, but it wasn't.

But in the course of teaching, often I'll share paintings being made. Let me show you this in progress. And especially my membership group, which is an ongoing education. And so I'll show paintings we made and the first time it really struck me was I put a series up where they had seen it a few months before in progress and they all flew out to members.

Almost every painting sold to a member of my membership group. And quite a few people said, oh, I'm so glad to have this. 'cause I remember watching you begin it and I'm so glad to have a piece of the end of it, which just was like another light bulb of Ah, yes. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause these, these people are involved and I do it with people I love.

I buy paintings from people I've watched make the paintings on Instagram or wherever. Right. And then I, I really love it when it's finished and now I feel like I know them, as you said, I feel like they're my friend. 'cause they told me all about their process. So for me, it ties into making the art and selling the art also all works with a following of artists just as much as it does with a following of people who don't make art.

And I personally am more comfortable talking to artists than I am to non-art. So it works for me. Maybe some people feel they'd like to sell their, you know, I only want to sell to people who are not artists, but I don't understand why, you know, I'm really flattered when an artist wants to buy something from me.

[00:37:06] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Well, you've grown that part of your business right side by side with your education business. And that's been pretty remarkable 

[00:37:13] Louise Fletcher: I will say, to be really frank, 'cause I was just discussing this on our podcast and by the time yours comes out, the episode I'm referring to, we'll have already been out, but Alice and I were just having a discussion about, priorities and what we want to do next.

And I was saying to her that I feel I've put a lot of emphasis on the teaching, a lot of emphasis on that. And that was conscious. 'cause I thought, I've heard Bibby on your podcast too. I love Bibby. who's amazing and she makes her whole business from selling her paintings and she makes it look effortless and wonderful.

Right? But I always thought that will put too much pressure on for me and it'll take the joy away. For me. So I want a consistent income. I want an income so I can be free in my creativity. That was good in theory, but in practice, what's happened a little bit is that I give so much energy to my teaching and so much creativity into that, that I don't have enough left for my own artwork.

Yeah. And that's happened in the last year, and you are nodding, so you look like, you know what I mean? 

[00:38:24] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yep, absolutely. I don't remember until recently, I haven't made art for myself probably the last five years I haven't really made Wow. 

[00:38:32] Louise Fletcher: Yeah. Myself. 

[00:38:34] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. So, you know, and I understand like we go through, like you said at the beginning of the podcast, Things shift and change.

Mm-hmm. Where we didn't expect five years ago that we'd be where we are now and we don't know where the next five years are. And there is something to be said in consistency. That's how we make businesses that are profitable. Because when we change, like I've done, I've changed like every year and a half, I'm changing my mind again.

And it's obviously put a little stunt stunting growth in where I wanted to go, but I also realized that we're creative beings that we're mixing with business and all this other stuff. So things have to flow and adapt. And how do you ride that wave like and still maintain, the following and the business that you've built?

 I think we just have to work in some breaks. I have a guest that's coming out later in the fall. Bonnie Christine is gonna be on the podcast, but one thing she said, because she runs a big business, I don't know if you know who she is. She teaches surface pattern design, but she just schedules in like two 30 day periods or two months of the year where it's.

All about her creativity. Mm-hmm. And rather than like where I have it scheduled, where it's like, okay, every Friday is off and I'm not supposed to be doing work I'm just supposed to be making, which rarely happens because then I'm trying to catch up on life and business and the family. Yeah. But she's actually designed her business where she's cutting out a whole month at a time that's just focused on the creative process rather than the teaching or the courses or the coaching.

And I'm like, okay, so that makes sense. If we can actually shut down some of our operations for periods of time where we can go deep into our creativity. 

[00:40:14] Louise Fletcher: Yes. Yeah, I like that idea. I mean, the way it used to work for me was I taught my course for, well, it lasted about three months, but actually as you know, the launching and the wrapping up, it was more like five months of my year.

Six months of my year was that, and the other six months was quiet and was, for me creatively, that worked really well. And then I had the genius idea that I should do a membership as well, because people wanted, they left the course and they said, what else can we do with you? And I didn't have anything, right?

Ultimate people pleaser. I'll do a membership and I love my membership group. So, I don't regret that for a second. But what it did is throw the balance really onto I, because of my personality, which is. If you are going to pay me for something, I'm gonna make sure you get 10 times what you paid for.

Right. And that's a flaw. I'm not making that to be a good thing. That's a character flaw. 

[00:41:13] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Except for, that's why you're very much beloved in the industry, in our community. 

[00:41:17] Louise Fletcher: Yeah. But what it does is push me into, sometimes like complete exhaustion because I've got to do this to the best of my ability and it's got to be amazing.

So that balance tip. So I agree with that person. That's a great way, because I'm like, you, Friday was meant to be my painting day. This week we're talking on a Thursday, but it's already filled up with. Accounting things and an appointment I have to do and some other stuff. So I won't be painting on Friday.

So what I'm looking for next and what I'm thinking about at the moment is this is my responsibility. Like I have to sort this out. I built this and I created this situation. So now what am I going to do? And I'm just in the process of renting an amazing space outside of my home. I've always worked in a garden studio or initially I worked in a cupboard, and then I moved up to a spare bedroom and then a garden studio, which I've been really lucky to have for the last four years.

But I'm about to rent somewhere bigger, somewhere that will be my like company headquarters, but also my studio space. And it's very spacious and that makes me think, I've got the physical space now I need. The mental space. I don't want to give up my membership. I want to keep teaching, but I've got to find a way.

So when I teach my course this year, which is coming in September, I'm planning that. Then I'll take a break from that for a few years and then it will come back in some other format in some other way. But I need some time where I can be like the lady you were just talking about. I need to be like Bonnie saying right now it's my time and I'm not filming. I have to put the camera away. 'cause IU like this, I always go, well this is a shame to not film this. This is really good. 

[00:43:20] Kellee Wynne Conrad: That exactly what happened to my brain. Yeah. Everything I did ended up being for production for somebody else.

And so that's where I'm trying to retrain myself now to make art for me first and then bring it forward. Yes. Right. We do need that nurturing and we need to. And actually it's my husband who's pretty smart about it, and even my father who says, if you're not making art, are they going to respect you as much as a teacher? Like, you should still be creating and, and making art for yourself. And I'm like, oh yeah, you're probably right.

And so I've actually spent some time making more, but behind the scenes and not actually sharing all of it, which is a first for me in like a decade of doing something to not immediately go and put it on, you know, a video or a photo on Instagram, which is, it's great. But at the same time, I like, there's a dichotomy of that.

Like when you understand the power of what we can do to make money. Yeah. Like your YouTube channel's grown huge now, right? Yeah. And in and of itself is making you a good income. 

[00:44:30] Louise Fletcher: Yeah. I mean the, yeah. YouTube itself brings in money. Like it pays my mortgage. You know, that's, I mean, that's. I couldn't have imagined that.

Yeah. Right. And also there's a pressure that comes, which isn't just about money, but it's also I read about a lot of young people falling into this trap when they become influencers that, let's say you become a big twitcher and you're playing video games, and then you have to be playing video games all the time because people are expecting it and you can't take a break.

And kids are having breakdowns because it's too much pressure to work all the time. And there is that feeling of, I must produce a YouTube video every week, and that was happening to me. I'm over that now. But I was in that position of feeling like that. And the way I dealt with it is to say to myself, right in the run up to the course, I do want to reach as many people as possible.

So I am gonna have a YouTube video every week, which means I'm gonna spend a few days just. Making editing. I have someone who helps me with editing, but making a series of videos and I think in a week I made like 16 videos, which will go right to the course after that's finished. I'm not pushing myself to do that every week.

I'm quite good on Instagram that I only post when I feel like it, like I have a sudden thought I'll post it. That's easy. But a video's not that easy 'cause you have to film it and then you have to edit it and you have to think a bit more about what you're gonna do. And it, it's partly realizing that you can bring in that money.

It's partly for me realizing, oh, I can reach more people and I can get people to understand this if I just do this one thing. So I'll be painting away and I'll have a revelation and I'll think, I wish that was on video. 'cause that would've got to someone they would've understood if they saw that. Yeah.

And so the next time I put the camera on, just in case that happens, and then when something good does happen, I'm like, well, I've gotta get that video edited and write a description and do all this. And my coach said, what would it feel like if everything you created, you didn't show anyone for a certain amount of time?

Ooh. And I was like, that means that the little girl who used to run and go, look what I've done, can't go, look what I've done. Look at me, look what I've made. That's quite tough to think about, but I think that when something is tough to think about, it's what we should be doing. So I am looking forward to a period of time where I do that.

[00:47:09] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Yeah. That's exactly where I am finally at right now. And I do hear what you're saying because I love seeing the lights go on. Just like your previous teachers were able to do, to shift your whole perspective and take you down the path you're down. I love knowing that there, there students of mine that have said, I've even been through university, I didn't understand color as well as I understand it now.

Yeah. You're like, ah, yeah. But at the same time, it's like I just need to pass the torch to the next person and allow space and trust that my journey will continue even if I'm not always the one teaching. 

[00:47:45] Louise Fletcher: Yes. Yeah. And it is hard, I think, 'cause there is something in certain people, I've been reading a lot about human design.

I dunno if you know about human design a little, but if you have an open throat in human design, you have this desire to speak out what you know and what you learn. And a power to speak it out very well because it's, it naturally comes out, of you in ways that it doesn't for someone else. So I've tried to get other people to teach some of my stuff for me, like in the membership.

And sometimes some people can do it, some people can't. You don't realize that you're very good at something until you see someone else struggle with it and you go, oh, what comes easily to me doesn't come easily to them. Just like many things don't come easily to me. Right, right. My accounting, for example, does not come easily to me, but explaining something that seems to be something I just do well and we like to do the things we do well and we're less comfortable doing the things that we're not sure about.

This is what Alice said to me this morning. She was like, well, you know, you're good at courses. You know you can make one and it'll do well and you'll be good at it making art that you don't know what it's gonna look like yet, that's a more scary proposition and you are not certain of accomplishment. In fact, its chances are you often won't have any accomplishment.

So it's not surprising that you don't wanna put yourself into that quite as much. And I have made series of work over the last few years, but. Nowhere near as many and not pushing it as far as I would like to, I'd like to really push it and I'd like my work to be much more me than even it is now.

Yeah, I'd like to put more of me into it. I'd like it to be more raw and more authentic and perhaps a little bit ugly. Like not all beautiful, not the perfect colors, and some people will be going, she already makes ugly things, but because, 

[00:49:48] Kellee Wynne Conrad: well, I have one of of those on Facebook, they don't care. Abstract, but it's the raw, it's the risk. I think that's what you're looking for is a risk with your work, right?

[00:49:57] Louise Fletcher: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:49:59] Kellee Wynne Conrad: And that's hard 

[00:50:00] Louise Fletcher: because you reach a point, and you know this with all your color expertise, you reach a point where, You know what to do to a composition to make it work. And I'm not saying it's easy 'cause I have a lot of failures, but I kind of know, okay, why that failed And I know what to do with color and I've practiced that over a long period of time.

But sometimes it's empty. So yes, it looks beautiful because I put that pink next to that green and those two go really well together and I put them in that position on the canvas. 'cause I know that's where your eye needs to go. And then I put something here to balance it out and I can do all that. And that's fun sometimes to do those challenges for yourself.

But it's not enough because sometimes I look at the thing and think, yeah, but that was, that was you going through the motions. And I don't usually share those things so people wouldn't have seen those. But I've got lots of them where I think you were just trying to. People please. Again, you were just doing the theme.

Yeah, like a performing monkey. Like here it is, I can do this. 

[00:51:08] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I am like resonating with everything you say. there's been so much work in my past where it's been specifically like, I'm not ashamed of it, but I also know I don't ever want to do it again. And it's really hard because it's like I have three boys and they don't like abstract.

They love it when I'm doing like landscapes and recognizable stuff and I may be able to be skilled in doing that, but do I have talent enough to trust myself and go completely bonkers with my work and go the direction that my heart says it wants to go? Can I do the unexpected and have people go. What was that?

Yeah, because that's what I want. Yeah. But I haven't allowed myself over the last five, 10 years really to, I've had a few moments where it's come out and it's almost scared me, and then I put it away and it's still sitting there and I'm going, why did you abandon that? Why did you not take that risk? So I think I'm with you in this transition that's coming up for 2024, where I'm actually gonna be spending time just making art for me.

I have promised I'm not making any new art courses, at least until 2025. And then maybe by then it'll be outta my system and I'll be full into my coaching program. So it'll be fine. I won't feel this like fear or shame around the art and the making. But you know, I mean, I think that's part of the shift we go through and we need to keep showing up.

I think that's how the group, the circle, the community that we've built wants to see us, even though it's scary to do, they wanna see us take that risk. 

[00:52:37] Louise Fletcher: Yes, because that is, I started in my membership, just recently, maybe four months ago, releasing not just classes where I teach a skill, but these backstage pass videos that we do, which is come into my world and I'll just share with you what's happening and talk to you about it.

Mm-hmm. So it can be me looking for a studio space and I can't decide, and I dunno how to make a decision, or it can be, I'm working on a series of paintings and here's the sketchbook that started it and now I'm developing them. It can be whatever I'm doing at that time. Mm-hmm. And, the response to that is much more than the response to the, now let me teach you how to get more followers on Instagram, or let me show you how to use color in a different way 

because we are modeling for other people. Just like other people have modeled for me, Alice being one, Nicholas Wilton being, another, quite a few different people Bibby being and other people who have modeled success in different ways. That has inspired me to think, okay, then that's possible. I mean, Bibby is a huge inspiration to me at the moment.

'cause I think, okay, if I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna make that my income for 2024, let's say I'm going to make that my sole focus. Maybe I won't actually get round to selling anything 'cause I'll be exploring. But Bibby's focus on her artwork and her experimentation and her courage with things that's inspiring to me.

If she didn't show up on video doing that, I wouldn't feel like, you know, that might be a possibility. So I think each person who shows up in whatever way they show up. It's so important for everyone else. Mm-hmm. And whatever it is for you, this is what I, this is what all my teaching is about. What's right for Kelly isn't right for me, isn't right for Alice, isn't right for someone else.

We have to each of us find our own thing and our own way of, expressing ourselves. And for some people that is, well, I don't want to sell anything. I want to make things purely for my own exploration. And you shouldn't feel ashamed of that if that's you. And for other people it's, I wanna be. A monumental artist on a massive scale.

Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that either. You should. 

[00:54:59] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Or me, because I've always said if I had a choice between being in like the MoMA or on a mug in every home in America, I think I'd take the mug because that mm-hmm to me feels more naturally aligned. Yeah. And I think the closer we can get to how we envision ourselves and where we would wanna go and how we wanna show up and be true to that, and not just the ideal that we see, the happier we're gonna be.

[00:55:24] Louise Fletcher: Yeah. I mean, a friend said to me the other day, 'cause I have a little note in my studio, W W T E D, which is what would Tracy Emin do? And he said to me, do you think Tracy Emin worries about whether people are gonna like that Instagram post she did, or whether do you think she worries about that stuff?

I was like, no, she, do you think Tracy Emin worries about whether it's all right to be raw and authentic, or does she just go be raw and authentic? Yeah, she goes and be raw and authentic and when you know what kind of artist you want to be. Mm-hmm. So, take the example of I want to be in every mug in America, right?

You could have that desire and you could also have a little voice in your head saying, but I shouldn't want that 'cause that's commercial and I should want to be more serious. And, and you've got to resolve that by yourself. 'cause you can't do it if you're half-assed in your head. You've got to say, actually, having thought about it, I'm not the kind of person who wants to be in that snooty art world or whatever it is that, you know, I don't want that.

I want this over here. 'cause I really admire this person and that person who is on every mug does not worry about what the art world thinks about what they're doing. Right. They don't think about that because they know who they are and what they're doing and why they're doing it. And I feel like I'm beginning to understand, but initially when I was making my art, I don't think these are things, we understand why we're doing it.

I just was doing it. Now I understand when you said that, I thought, oh, MoMA, not that I believe I belong in MoMA. I don't know if that'll ever be true, but that would be my preference out of those two. Mm-hmm. So now we both know, okay, we know what our preferences are. We can start heading, as you say, in that direction and choosing to say no to the things that don't take us there, if that's what we want.

But everybody listening will have another version of that, which is different, 

[00:57:34] Kellee Wynne Conrad: right and it is challenging to figure out what that is and stay true to it, and it will change over time. But coming back to center and allowing for a time where you're not always getting the input and giving the output and that you're just being, is the only way that you can keep moving in the direction, the path that you're meant to be on.

[00:57:55] Louise Fletcher: Yes. And when you feel like you've changed a lot, you were saying you feel like you've changed every year and a half, but there's probably some consistent thread under that, which is who you are and what your I. Aiming for or what your values are, what matters to you.

And it's just as long as you keep coming back to that, yeah, you are. Okay. It's when we get away from that, which we all do from time to time, we go somewhere we're not supposed to be and we realize, Hmm, this wasn't for me. We have to come back. And everything I've said today might be something that actually turns out to be one of those things where I go, actually, no, I wanna come back to here and change.

And we have to be, I think this is circling right back to beginning, but we have to be able to keep adapting because we are entrepreneurs as artists. Yeah. Can you read it? Sorry.

I bought this little vintage, Morris minor old car and they need to put indicators and seat belts on it. 'cause it doesn't have either of those things 'cause it's from 1958. Oh how? And so when I get in it, I have to do like, Play Elvis Presley songs and Everly Brothers. 

[00:59:04] Kellee Wynne Conrad: And so that's a special gift to give to yourself. What model? 

[00:59:09] Louise Fletcher: I'm so excited. I don't buy myself anything. It's called a Maurice Miner. So it was like, it's a convertible, it was the affordable British car through the fifties to seventies.

But it's a gorgeous shape. Now people still drive them so people renovate them, people keep them going and you can get all the parts for them so you can keep them. My neighbors are mechanics, so he's on hand if anything goes wrong and he knows how to fix it.

So I'm like, yes, I want one of those. But anyway, fun. I'm very excited. Sorry, I just needed to take that. 

[00:59:43] Kellee Wynne Conrad: It's okay. I mean, I totally get it. It's like when there's something exciting about to happen and I don't know if we'll edit the whole thing out because I want people to know that you're doing something kind for yourself.

We don't work this hard and make a good solid income to not enjoy it from time to time. Right. 

[01:00:00] Louise Fletcher: Yes. And this is, this has been a giant hurdle for me actually, because I dunno about you, but I am very good at the business side and the planning and making the stuff and earning the income, and I'm very good at spending that money on.

Giving back into hiring team members to make videos and all of that stuff. But spending anything on myself is a problem. And I said to my coach, I've done this, but it's not very sensible to buy this car because it's old and it's going to need some repairs. And she said, do you want it?

And I said, really want, I've always wanted one. And she said, well, that seems like the most sensible reason in the world to me to buy something. Yes. I love that. God. Yeah. It's sensible, isn't it? To do what we want, if we can. You know, once in a while, 

[01:00:51] Kellee Wynne Conrad: it's hard to not treat ourselves once in a while. I am like you, I put most of it back into my family or in my team, or my business in some way.

The one thing I always splurge on though, is travel, because that's my, I'm still driving. I have a 13 year old van. I don't have a need to upgrade to the fancy Porsche that my son keeps trying to tell me to buy. I'm like, no, that would be a waste. That's not me. Funny kiddo. I know you'd love it, but I'm okay with spending the money on other things.

So I like security, and I like giving back too. I'm like, you. Mm-hmm. I spend a lot on my team, but it also helps me do more of what I wanna do. 

[01:01:29] Louise Fletcher: Yes. I don't want to sound like I'm all Mother Teresa, but that that is also, it helps me stay sane because just as you know, running a membership is an awful lot of, I couldn't do that on my own. Not 4,000 people. There's too many. 

[01:01:45] Kellee Wynne Conrad: And I only had 400 and I thought I was gonna die. 

[01:01:48] Louise Fletcher: Yeah, it's too much. People leave. People come in. There's all sorts of things you have to do, and then people ask questions and we have two people dealing with those emails now, and I'll probably have to add more if it grows more.

 I have someone else with video editing and I have my operations manager who. Keeps everything going. Who, like you said, tells me what to do. You need to make these videos, you need to, and I'm so grateful for that. 

[01:02:15] Kellee Wynne Conrad: That's a lifesaver for me. When I realized that the, so I originally had hired some friends and some artists who weren't really trained to do virtual assistant work or any admin.

And so when I finally switched over to hiring a real virtual assistant and my whole life changed, I'm like, actually, I adore you and I trust you, and now I'm gonna make you the manager. Now you can just tell me what to do. Yes. I mean, I still get to make the visionary decisions, but the operations, it's really nice to hand that over to somebody else.

Yes. So let's, I was gonna just transition because I would love to talk about, what you have coming up in the near future, which this will air before Find Your Joy is launching and you're gonna have your taster course for it. 

[01:03:03] Louise Fletcher: Yeah, so we've done this now for, and I say we, 'cause it's a team of people that helped me with this.

We've done it for five years. It's eight days, the free taster course, which starts on September 1st. And this is a chance many, many people just do the eight days and go away. Most people just do the eight days and go away. So last year it was about 30,000 people came in and that's what we want.

We don't want people to feel obliged to stay and do the full course. It's eight days of. Letting go of some limiting beliefs of understanding what you're capable of, of getting some guidance, set exercises that you can do, painting, exercise that everyone does together, but then coming together the day after for live q and a sessions with me to talk about what we learned video lessons from me.

It's full on for eight days. And at the end of that eight day period, then I, open up the full course, which this year is a 12 week course. It used to be 10. I've made it bigger. I've rerecorded everything. I've redesigned everything for this year because I've learned a lot over the last five years. I feel like I can make it even better now, so hopefully it's even better.

And, The free course is myself. I have a team of coaches, five other artists who help me teach my full course, but then I have about 15 former students who come back every year and help me teach the free eight days so that everyone gets a comment on their post. Everyone gets some, acknowledgement of what they're doing.

We do our best anyway to do that. Yeah. And it's a community, it's now a family, the Find your Joy family and people can take the eight days, they can then either go away happily and start making amazing things. And I get emails from people all the time who did that. They can stay on for the full program or if they like, they can come and join my membership and just stay in touch that way.

And different people choose different things depending on time, commitments, income, et cetera. Anything's fine if you just come in and then you go away and have fun painting. That makes me just as happy as if you come and do the full thing. It's the best thing I do all year, this eight days.

It's exhausting, but it's so much fun. 

[01:05:25] Kellee Wynne Conrad: And it's so good for the community because this is, again, it's a chance that there's something for everyone. Even if they can't go onto the next step, there's still something for everyone and you may or may not be running it again the same way in the future. I know we've been talking this whole time about needing a break and a chance to make art for ourselves.

Yeah. It's a little more raw and authentic and risk taking, but I know it's a huge staple in the community and people look forward to find your joy.

[01:05:54] Louise Fletcher: I know people will say, oh no, you've got through it again. 

[01:05:57] Kellee Wynne Conrad: I'm, it's okay to take a break. It's totally to take a break, but I know that people will be able to find you, connect with you, join your art tribe, join, find your joy, and just find Louise Fletcher.

If you just like type her name in anywhere. Everything comes up that you need to know. 

[01:06:14] Louise Fletcher: Yeah. You've gotta put art after it. 'cause there's an actress called Louise Fletcher who she sadly died last year or earlier this year. She was Nurse Rett in one. Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. Okay. Was Louise Fletcher.

So she has louise and I have Louise Fletcher Art. So if you struggling to find me, if you just put Louise Fletcher, Art, into anything, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, wherever you'll come across me there. Go. 

[01:06:39] Kellee Wynne Conrad: There you go. And we will put a link in the show notes, but before we go mm-hmm. I love to ask this one question of everyone, which is, what is your big audacious dream?

[01:06:54] Louise Fletcher: Oh, do you know what I think I'm doing it. I think it's this new space because. I would've struggled to express what it was a few years ago because it was what I'm doing now. So this space that I'm going to be renting is a large studio space, but also gives me the ability, To create meetups for my art tribe community to have workshops, in-person workshops and to run retreats because it's on the grounds, in the grounds of a stately home.

You know, the old British like Downton Abbey type place that the owner has turned into a wellness retreat and spa and an office park with office buildings. And that's where my studio will be in one of these buildings. But there are holiday cottages, there's the house you can rent, there's a health restaurant, there's all this stuff there.

So I can see, and I'm not promising, but I can see this opportunity for really special events. And part of what I'm doing in this space is there's an area which is perfect gallery space. So I'm gonna make my own. Gallery, which I've never been comfortable going to galleries. I keep trying to get comfortable with it, and I'm really not just because of the shipping things backwards and forwards and all the work that goes into it.

And, this will give me the ability to have my own space and to hold my own exhibitions whenever I want to and to invite people to a beautiful, garden and stately home gardens and, and all this, this extra benefit. So I think my big audacious dream is actually happening at the moment. I love it.

I can't dream any bigger than that because it's, it's like, 

[01:08:45] Kellee Wynne Conrad: The the biggest that you had been thinking. 

[01:08:47] Louise Fletcher: It's the biggest I can do for now. I might get bigger in the future, but for now that's as big as I can get. 

[01:08:53] Kellee Wynne Conrad: That is amazing. Thank you so much. I could talk to you forever, but we'll call it a day and hopefully, we can get a catch up on how this space is maybe next year, won't you?

[01:09:05] Louise Fletcher: Yeah, definitely. Hopefully I should be all set up in there by then. Fabulous. 

[01:09:09] Kellee Wynne Conrad: Thank you Louise. 

[01:09:11] Louise Fletcher: Take care. Bye-bye

If you'd like to listen to or learn more about the podcast visit  for our show notes and links to the main players.