Creative Business Without Hustle: Art, Community, and Being Enough with Jayne Emerson (#144)
Jayne Emerson: [00:00:00] Well, hello.
Kellee Wynne: Hello. It's Kelly Wynne of the Made Remarkable Podcast. I'm here. I'm surprised as you are. I know. What, what happened? Where did she go? Is there still a podcast? What's, what's going on here? I've been asking myself the exact same things, like, when is this podcast coming back? Is this podcast coming back?
What are we, what are we doing here? What are, what's happening? Kelly, tell me and I'm just gonna say, you know, it's been a while and I just have to go with the ebbs and flows of life and see where it takes me. I know it's important to share the voices of artists and to connect with you. I kind of missed it.
So I've been recording a lot of interviews over the last couple months, and I don't wanna hoard 'em from you anymore. I think that you need to hear them coming to you for the next few months, year. Let's just. [00:01:00] Play it by ear. Let's just see how it goes. But I'm gonna tell you this, having these conversations with other art educators, people who are deeply committed to unearthing what it means to be creative, why is it so essential to our way of being?
Why does it heal us so much? What, what is it about making whatever kind of art it is that you're making that makes us better? Can you imagine if the world, if everyone made art, I think that we'd be a lot happier. But I do know that it's something that spreads out from us. The more we take care of ourselves and express ourselves through our creativity, the more we're able to show up for others.
And I'm learning that the hard way because I took a really long time, um, a long break from making art, and many of you have heard. Talk about last year meeting in [00:02:00] person with other artists and community, specifically Colleen at Tara's Art workshops, that that in and of itself was incredibly deeply healing when I felt like there was no hope for our nation, for the planet, for humanity.
And then you bring it back to this center, the people that are right here in your circle that you can touch, that you can love, that you can hug, that you can create with, that you can have conversations with. And then you see that there is still incredible purpose to what we're doing, and there's more than one way to show up and make a difference.
So for me, the podcast and sharing the voices of other artists who are teachers, host spaces for others. Create and share their talent. I feel like these conversations are the essence of what made remarkable is, [00:03:00] and I really think that when you listen to these conversations that you're gonna feel it to, like the energy of these beautiful souls creating and sharing with you what they think and how they feel and what they believe and what they're so passionate about.
I think that energy is gonna convey and hopefully will inspire you as well. So thank you so much for putting me back in your ear. I feel very honored to be able to hold this position of creating a podcast, and I'm gonna do the best that I can for as long as I can and as long as you understand that it's me, pretty much a one woman show, putting it all together now, it's okay.
So. Today on the podcast we have Jane Emerson, and you're gonna fall in love with her if you haven't met her yet. She is an artist. She plays with [00:04:00] fibers and materials in ways that I have never seen anyone do. It is my dream to be in her studio with her and just watch her play. In all honesty, I was supposed to go visit her in 2024, and if you've been around long enough, you'll know that that did not happen.
And 2024 was not my best year, but here we are. It's
Jayne Emerson: really amazing
Kellee Wynne: how she brings people together and gets some to think differently about creativity, about how you put things together. Her membership is called No Rules Society for a Reason, and you'll hear it in every conversation that we have. It's full of excitement and energy.
So instead of me explaining who Jane Emerson is, why don't you just start listening to this episode? I know you're gonna enjoy it immensely. And just remember that we have links to everything so you can find her, so you can learn about what she does. There'll be pictures [00:05:00] on the website, um, of the things that we've talked about.
And I, I just know that you're gonna fall in love with her the way I have. So here we go. We're just gonna do this casually, right, Jan?
Jayne Emerson: We are. Yeah.
Kellee Wynne: We haven't talked, I know, just rushing out of the shower. We haven't talked in like over a year,
Jayne Emerson: is it? Or is it longer than that?
Kellee Wynne: Longer than that? No. No.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah, because I was like trying to go back over what's happened since we last saw each other, which was probably.
Kellee Wynne: Early 2024 was the end of the league, correct?
Jayne Emerson: April, 2024?
Kellee Wynne: No. Was it 2023?
Jayne Emerson: No, I think we did the league. 23, 24.
Kellee Wynne: Okay. Good God. I can't crack the time ever since the pandemic. Everything is just like a blur.
Jayne Emerson: I know. I
Kellee Wynne: don't track anything.
Jayne Emerson: I have to go back over my photos to see, [00:06:00] but I do that with my newsletter as well.
I'm like, okay, what happened in the last month? Let's look at my photo.
Kellee Wynne: Would you've been taking photos? That means you're doing something exciting because I have no photos to show right now.
Jayne Emerson: I don't know. And a lot of them are like the moon.
Kellee Wynne: Oh, I love that. We had a big white moon or whatever. I don't follow exactly the names of all the moons, but I know it's powerful.
I mean, if it can move the tides.
Jayne Emerson: Exactly. I just like it. Just like, yeah, just the fact that we've got cameras now on our phones that we can take that it's quite length.
Kellee Wynne: It's amazing and it's stifling at the same time when you run your own business that you feel like you're supposed to capture every moment to share, which is a big shift for me over the last couple years, is that I don't do that anymore, although I probably should because I've kind of been, am I for a while.
But that's why we're here with the podcast. Let me tell you what I'm thinking about with the podcast right now.
Jayne Emerson: Okay?
Kellee Wynne: I want it to be [00:07:00] more meaningful and find depth in it and have those deep conversations, which is why you're a perfect person to have on as the first guest of 2026. And I got it right that time, not 2025.
I can't believe how much time passes
Jayne Emerson: a rerun,
Kellee Wynne: but I, I just, I wanna know why when we say made remarkable for the name of the podcast, why, why are we doing the things we're compelled to do with our hands and our creativity and our spirit and our soul? And like I really. I want it to be juicy. I wanna like dive into the things that are meaningful, pur how we're finding our purpose, and will there be a little discussion about business maybe, but I'm not as worried about that moving into the new phase.
You know, it's more soul unearthing is what I'm looking for. And you're the perfect, perfect person to discuss with.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah. I think that when I was sort of writing down what's happened in the last two years [00:08:00] from doing the Remarkable League, I'm like, a lot of it has been that in a way. So finding our individuality, what I'm very much so in my membership that teaches me so much.
Yes. Just being around quite a niche group of no rules. Textile women, you know, right, who are talking each week about everything and the questions that I get about it that I, you know, but what do you do with this? And why are you doing it? And a lot of the time I'm promoting play without, without any.
Attachment to the end result.
Kellee Wynne: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jayne Emerson: Kind of. And it has, it's been a kind of journey into like, this is so good for you. This is like your creative health. Yeah. This is like ing all the things that make you, well one, one of my members called it following the fizz, and I think this is really interesting because it's like, where is the fizz in your life?
Like where do you feel that kind of like crass [00:09:00] excitement. I'm
Kellee Wynne: writing down that following the fz,
Jayne Emerson: like a bumper plate. And for me, and I was thinking about this, you know, like for me it's always kind of innovation, clever techniques when somebody mixes up one thing with another or a cross pollination of like painting textiles or like two techniques that go together, or I've kind of worked out a new way of making past montre that's impatient.
It's that. That could be in anything or kind of thing, oh my God, that furniture design is just so clever, or just an unexpected moment in nature. And I was thinking about that in relation to like what we learn in the remarkable league. You know, I was always kind of pushing you with the, like, one thing you did,
Kellee Wynne: like, oh, I pushed, well, let
Jayne Emerson: me tell you,
Kellee Wynne: I've had a lot of aha moments since then, so we'll go into that.
But okay. Tell me.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah, but I, but I, but as with sort of all the great teachers that you have in your life, which, you know, you are one of them because you, [00:10:00] you made me think you brought together like incredible people. I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now to the level that I'm doing it now without you, you know, so it's kind of, but what I've worked out is that one thing is the fizz.
Kellee Wynne: Is the fizz. All right. I wanna give credit to who, whomever it was that said this. So we will give her a shout out. But like. I'm, I'm holding on to, this is a great Amy
Jayne Emerson: in, in my membership group. She's amazing.
Kellee Wynne: Oh, wonderful,
Jayne Emerson: wonderful thing.
Kellee Wynne: So, before we get too far, Jane,
Jayne Emerson: sorry.
Kellee Wynne: Yeah. People probably should know you're a textile artist.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah.
Kellee Wynne: Living obviously in the uk. Yeah.
Jayne Emerson: Living in a barn in the middle of nowhere in the
Kellee Wynne: uk. Oh, I didn't know it was a barn. But you do have the coolest studio. Whenever I get glimpses, I'm like, I could play in there forever. And thats where that no rules is, is like just exploring anything, any [00:11:00] wild idea and putting it together.
I'm gonna go back to what we were saying. A part of that is in order to
Jayne Emerson: be able to explore widely, you have to know what you like. So I'd explore widely, but I don't use a lot of color and I really like textile techniques. And yet, you know, like, like your, I think your prime thing is kind of color. So you might explore all those things, but within the lens of like that foundation of color, you know?
Right. So both of us have that thing that we want. We wanna help people, we wanna help people find what it is,
Kellee Wynne: find
Jayne Emerson: what
Kellee Wynne: it is.
Jayne Emerson: So it's kind of, um, yeah. Then the studio is very cool. It's got Skylar. I read somewhere that the perfect artist studio has skylights north and south, and this has four, which isn't so good.
'cause I don't have a bedroom, sacrifice bedroom to have my studio. So quite a lot of the time I sleep in here as well, which is Oh wow. Have any blinds. But it, it is gray. 'cause I can be like [00:12:00] completely submerged in art. Feels like a, on college again.
Kellee Wynne: How did you get here? Like what was it that propelled you towards fiber?
What were those creative sparks that shaped you?
Jayne Emerson: Okay. Yeah. For a long time actually, I, I wondered whether it was just that I learned. The sewing machine is a tool and should I have been doing something else? But basically I had a really inspiring teacher at school. She taught, it's that innovation thing again.
She, my grandmother always used to make clothes. She always had a sewing machine out. But then one day at school, my teacher showed me how to draw with the sewing machine. And I was like, oh, that's so cool. Wow. So, and she was just really inspiring. She's still a friend now. She's like in her nineties now, but she had all these po, you know, baskets full of color, color, color, you know, fabrics.
So the red and the blue and [00:13:00] everything, and all the textures. And she was just so enthusiastic about it and loved it. And I loved it too. It was kind of like an outlet. Yeah. So I did that and then I thought I was gonna do fashion. And because I failed my art GCSE, you know, it's like still now, I'm like, am I a fraud?
I can't really draw. I could draw on a sewing machine. I can interesting things together. And I do a lot of grids and stripes and don't do anything representational. You know, again, that's kind of almost like remembering that's my happy place. You know, just not having to think about the drawn element of it.
It what I put together. But, so I, and I did fashion for a year and I was sort of recommended loads of fashion colleges to go to. But then a couple of friends of mine said they were gonna go and look at textiles. And I hadn't even thought of it. And I went and it was, it was amazing. I was like, I wanna do this.
I'm more interested in what the fabric structure and what I [00:14:00] can do with that looks like. But then the first year of that degree was drawing, so I failed it. I found recently the thing, it was literally terrible. It was like, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail. And then it said a continuation of. Damn right. I don't have any continuation of ideas and, and my dad, when I was young, always used to call me like, really?
Bullet a gate and a scatter brain and all these things.
Kellee Wynne: Yeah.
Jayne Emerson: Recently my dad watched the trailer for my no rules patchwork online course. And he was just sat there smiling. You could let tell. He was like, well done. You, you've literally turned around all the things that would, you were told you were rubbish at this.
Is it,
Kellee Wynne: Jane? This is it. This is the thing I am most interested in. Knowing the thing that we thought was a flaw is actually something that propelled us to where we are now. And it's so crazy because scattered brain means that your brain is working on putting pieces together that no one else can see. [00:15:00] I mean, that's amazing.
And textile is so fascinating. I didn't really understand what you meant when we first met what you meant by textile. I'm like. Surface pattern design. And it's not that at all. It could, I guess it could be, but it's really about how the different textures play together and how you form it to create, I don't know, a new textile and
Jayne Emerson: that please you and gives you a fizz.
I mean, it's kind of, yeah, what I did. So then I went and did an ma at St. Martin's in fashion, but I kind of didn't really look at that course either, and it was either print or knit and I didn't do either of those. So I continued to like play around on my sew machine and mix techniques together. But I, and then after that, I did like 25 years of, of making samples for fashion and interiors, right?
So I would just make the sample would not have to continue that idea or think about production or anything else. I could just aply hop to the [00:16:00] next idea. Just create these seeds and I would just sell them. So it was like my ideal job. But it was also a secret because you sell the copyright of the ideas.
Kellee Wynne: Oh yeah. So you can't talk about who you sold what to, but you've worked with the major fashion industry, like all the big names.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah. I do say who I'm, and I have sold to most, most people from like, from Dior and like Chanel to like, it's John Marks and Spencer's anthropology. You know, I've sold, see people
Kellee Wynne: like, it's so wild.
And I was encouraging you a long time ago to like start a podcast or something to talk about these details. And I'm glad you said, that's not for me right now because, you know, no one needs an overwhelmed mom and artist and business owner, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. To also add on one more thing.
They're not, they're not really gonna be able to do. But one day. [00:17:00] All of those, all of those stories, like how fascinating is it? And then when I saw the samples, 'cause you can see some of that like on your website or on your Instagram, it's like so intriguing. It's like juicy, like, I don't know how else to explain it, but it's like, I'm like, okay, I would, if I had all of the time and multiple lifetimes, I would absolutely be exploring textiles.
And maybe I will, who knows? But right now it's like all these things come together and it's just so exciting. One of the questions I, I'm really interested in understanding from people is how, you know that whole purpose, identity thing. And I'm curious how creativity has taught you about purpose or identity?
Jayne Emerson: I think what happened was, so I was doing that, so I was running this double life and I was selling the samples, but, and then I was also, I wrote like six craft books and was, and was [00:18:00] teaching beginners craft techniques because I would sort of find a new technique and then write a book on it and then teach it and like kind of learn through that.
But it did feel like I was running this double life. And then when the pandemic happened, I obviously, my agent wasn't going anywhere and all my in-person workshops were stopped and I'd done an online course in creating an online course. So I was like, now's the time.
Kellee Wynne: Yeah.
Jayne Emerson: So I started filming and then, and it also felt like, it felt like I just really wanted to share everything that I'd learned in all those years of play and experimentation.
And I just felt like it was all kind of swimming around in my head, didn't really know how I created things. I did this hashtag challenge on Instagram and when I used to do all the trends, we used to respond to a word quite often, and I know that quite often in hashtag challenges. So I, I just had all these words [00:19:00] and I kind of compartmentalized all these things that I did into like word prompts, so like spots and stripes and grids and water soluble and, you know, all these different things that I use.
And that's how I kind of broke it down. And that's what then became the sort of suite of online courses and no rules textile society. But getting to your point, it was bringing people together in no rules. That that was where my big learning happened because we were kind of, I really said, you know, this is for impatient textile rebels come in if you are kind of, you know, yeah.
Wanna explore everything and you just wanna do it with, with other people like-minded souls. But when they came in, you know. People would be like, but what's it for? But what's it for and why are we doing this? And where, and, and all those questions kind of came up. And what I realized that I was doing within that space, and what I'd always done when I was sort of teaching workshops was really kind of going, but what do you like?
Don't look sideways. Don't [00:20:00] try and use colors that you don't like. What's the point? Right. Use things that you like and, and look at everywhere where you know, what is it that you like in your life. Do you like old stately homes or gardens? Or like, people would go to me and you would say this. Somebody was like, I've got a gardening account and on Instagram and I've got my textile account.
I'm like, oh, mix it all up. Yeah. Because your gut is informing, you know, both of it. It does. If all the ingredients we're gathering our ingredients of the artists, we likes that, like the books that we read. All of the, the music we listen to,
Kellee Wynne: the we're the sum of everything. We are, we're not just one thing.
Exactly. So when, when your students say, what is it all for? Do, do they finally come to the
Jayne Emerson: conclusion that it's just for the pleasure of it? Yeah. I mean because that, that is if we are [00:21:00] lost in a kind of, we lose time, whatever we are doing. I was thinking about this recently because everything's been a bit business.
You know what it's like? Yeah. And you are not having enough time to like do the art. I've been playing badminton
Kellee Wynne: it with my family
Jayne Emerson: and I was like, why am I enjoying this? And it was like, because I'm not thinking about anything else for an hour. And that's really similar to like when we're just losing ourselves in art.
We're just following the next intuitive nudge. And that's so good for us.
Kellee Wynne: No, I haven't lost myself in art in a very long time. I'll be honest.
Jayne Emerson: It's really hard when we run our own business.
Kellee Wynne: It
Jayne Emerson: is, hey, I am like, I need to do that. And then you feel guilty about it. You're like, I should be answering these emails or I should be doing this, you know, and, and honestly, the times when I'm doing it, I've normally got a camera over my head, but I, I have [00:22:00] slowly recently just been going, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna do this.
And then I'm like, I wish I'd recorded it. That was a brilliant breakthrough. It's always
Kellee Wynne: in that moment, but Would you have had the breakthrough if you were recording it?
Jayne Emerson: Yeah, maybe. Actually I just did. What I'm enjoying is going back over all these sparks of ideas that I've recorded. So like I recorded a gel print course.
I'm not a printer, but I did it just to go. I know, and it's amazing. I wanted to go, what happens if you combine patchwork with gel printing and do it? And during that course I had a cut glass, glass sort of bar, um, bars. And I'd been watching Margard since she'd done a lot of this kind of printing with various, um, objects.
Kellee Wynne: Yeah.
Jayne Emerson: And so I thought, oh, I'm gonna do block printing with this glass. And I had the camera over my head and I was like, printing with it. And I was like, no, this, this isn't [00:23:00] working. 'cause I do kind of keep in. I'm like, this isn't as good as I thought it would be. And then it moved by accident. And I was like, oh, but that's interesting.
And then I sort of started gliding the bottom of this cut glass around the plate. Oh. And it was beautiful. And then I went back to that recently and I just thought, I'm just gonna put the camera on. And I wasn't talking, but I did it on my huge big poster sized plate and just kind of, oh, it was like, and the patterns were amazing.
And so I put that on a reel. So actually it can be just as nice to sort of do that and I just, don't worry, I'll just edit it down afterwards, but just have the camera ignore it. But then I've got used to having the camera on now.
Kellee Wynne: Oh, I love that. That's just in case the magic happens, not because you're trying to force it to happen.
And the magic always happens in the mistakes or so-called mistakes, the accidents. The oops moment is when usually that you make your best discoveries, right?
Jayne Emerson: Because you've gotta be [00:24:00] in the play for it to happen. You can't, like, I'm so like, I've got a friend in in these last two years as well, a friend called Anna McDonald who does decluttering, which has been amazing though I've kind of been really not having so much stuff in here and revealing that is just such a powerful thing to do, to reveal the things that you love.
Or
Kellee Wynne: another question, what is the bravest decision you've made in the last decade?
Jayne Emerson: Your course?
Kellee Wynne: Ah, to be the Ringer by Kelly Wynn is a brave.
Jayne Emerson: Investing in myself, you know,
Kellee Wynne: invest, investing in yourself,
Jayne Emerson: investing and believing in myself.
That
Jayne Emerson: is a
Kellee Wynne: very good answer. That's amazing because we don't find growth unless we're willing to take that risk.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah, I mean, the first thing that I did was get a go, get a professional photographer to take pictures of me. Oh my goodness. You know, that investment, I was on the cover of [00:25:00] magazines. It's been, you know, everywhere. Like in picture article, my website, you know, all of that is sort of start one of my members in no rules, just got her business cards done and she was like, I just have to say I did this and oh my goodness, it feels good.
You are taking leaps. You know, like when it feels kind of scary, but really exciting. And then listening to your podcast with Drew Stein Becker and going. I really want this. Yeah. I want this to be, you know, I mean it sounds like I must have been earning loads of money selling to all these people. I wasn't.
Kellee Wynne: I know That's the part that left me just gobsmack the fact that you're selling to these massive fashion industries and they're paying you less than a thousand thousand pounds per copy. Right. Idea.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah. It's like, you know, so, and, and obviously I wasn't selling so many because I don't do a repeat, I'm doing a kind of very organic kind of, [00:26:00] um, I think my agent said to me once, they were like, nobody actually designs like you.
You just go to the vintage fairs and the flea markets. You find really interesting vintage fabrics, and then you get them home and then you kind of change them almost to unrecognizable ness and make them modern. So once I asked my, one of my agents, I was like, tell me what you want from me. You know, what's the themes?
You know what, what, what's the point, Jane? You are just gonna go to the flea market and you're gonna find what inspires you and you're can just gonna do that anyway. And I was like, yeah, I am. I'm very kind of like material led, you know? And they quite often go, I know we're going off on tangents all over the place, but they, they quite often go Now, what was your process?
Did you cut every tiny little bit? And I'm be like, um, no. I cheated. I did this, this and this. You know, there's always a kind of cheats way, although I guess if you had to make me tris of it, it would take a long time. [00:27:00] But yeah. Now I can't remember where, how we got to that. Yeah.
Kellee Wynne: Oh, let's go back to, um, how investing in yourself and the remarkable league really pushed you.
I mean, let's talk about the fact that we, we, we always got along, but we did push each other a little bit.
Jayne Emerson: I have really young kids and I'm single, I've single parented them since they were tiny, you know? So it was always really tricky. I was always kind of scared of like doing too much or like where my balance was.
It's a constant, but also really, really wanting to make this business work for our family, you know? Right. And that was what, why I wanted to jump into that and do that, and that is what it did for me.
Kellee Wynne: Yeah.
Jayne Emerson: You know, it put, and the value of that also was just being, I always say to Susan McCreevy, you're my most expensive friend.
Yes, yes. We became such good friends and we speak all the time now, and it's those [00:28:00] spaces, I think that's kind of overlooked, you know, in memberships or in courses or in mentoring things. You, you facilitate that. You bring together these people. Are all wanting to the same thing,
Kellee Wynne: right?
Jayne Emerson: That's continue to support each other.
You know, all the people that I've met that are friends that are doing this and that have this mindset, pretty much all of them I've met through Alice Sheridan and you.
Kellee Wynne: Yeah.
Jayne Emerson: You know, and I'm,
Kellee Wynne: that's amazing. But we can't do this alone. And the thing that was missing when I was starting my business was this kind of community.
Yeah. I really felt alone. I really felt like there was no one to talk to. I could talk to other artists, but they didn't understand my passion for building a business. I could talk to business people, but they didn't understand art. But there weren't that many business people even then to be like, okay, this is what I'm gonna do.
So I had to put the pieces together myself and figure out how to make it work. And I was like, there could be a better way. And so I, I guess somewhere along the way, even though I love teaching [00:29:00] art, there was something in me that said, I want to give that opportunity to other people to, to really push them to their next level as well, and have the community to support them.
And it, and it's no secret that it's been more for me than it's been for anyone else. Like this is my home with these people and I have, I had big ambitions to make it this big, you know, Amy Porterfield, Bonnie Christine type of a thing. Until I realized that that wouldn't create the kind of community, foster the kind of relationships and build the kinda success that people needed, right?
So if you deciding you need to do what is best for you, regardless of what the formula is, I've realized it's the same thing, right? And when I burnt out last year, definitely I would look at some of the conversations we had, and even into [00:30:00] this year, probably this year is the biggest aha. Okay, we, we don't have to do this like a rap race, like the bro marketers.
We can do this the way we're meant to do as women, as soulful people, and it will happen. We are just allowing it to take more time and to do it more authentically. And that You modeled that for me, Jane, because you said, no, my children are young. No, I wanna make sure that no, no rules. Society always stays what I intended it to be.
And so, because you stuck to that and you tried different things, and there were times where I was like, okay, but if you just do this one thing and focus, it'll be so much bigger. But you didn't want bigger. I thought it was a limitation at the time, but I look back now and it was being kind to yourself,
Jayne Emerson: it's having trust and intuition and going into yourself and going, what is it?
What am, what do I want my days to look like?
Kellee Wynne: Mm-hmm. [00:31:00]
Jayne Emerson: You know, the, the people that I have in their rules, they're, they're friends. You know, we have, I, so I know them all. I so look forward to our weekly talk, you know, and if it was bigger, I would lose that.
Kellee Wynne: Yeah.
Jayne Emerson: Um, I mean obviously we've always gotta think about how is sustainably kind financially, I've gotta make it work for me.
I'm the only income in this household, you know, it's like, it's
Kellee Wynne: got right certain, but,
Jayne Emerson: but what my life looks like is most important. And now I realize that I too are missing making art. And it's actually some of my members that have been going to me. But Jane, what about you? What are you doing? Yeah. Show us what you've been doing.
And it feels like I wanna be a member of my own group. And that's kind of what I'm doing because that's where I set it up so that I could be there. And at the core of it, if we're teaching how to run art businesses or we're encouraging [00:32:00] others, and we gotta model it,
Kellee Wynne: we do. And that's the biggest thing that I've been, I don't wanna say guilty of because I've learned how to be kinder with myself as well.
I've given myself a lot of grace in the last two years because there was no other choice. But yeah. Um, I guess I'm quote unquote guilty of that, of not, I, it's very challenging for me to live as I preach, but I'm, I am actually now falling into that place for probably the first time since I started wanting to run a business, which was probably 2008, 2010, of actually doing it.
Like I, I said I was doing it from the heart. I knew what the passion was behind it, but I didn't. Listen and trust myself. So the fact that I didn't listen to my intuition and to my gut in 2024 has [00:33:00] shown me that it is the only way to keep moving forward is to listen, to feel it in your body and your heart.
When the mind starts racing, that means you need to stop and look and say, what will feel right? What do I morally feel is the right path for me too, right? And so when we start getting into that space, then we have to just trust. It'll all work out
Jayne Emerson: and we're all so different. So I've kind of gone down so different, a lot of human design learning as well.
And really, you know, I did a big course on that this year with Erin Claire Jones, which was amazing because you know, whether you believe in it or not, when you read that chart. You are start starting to realize how different everybody is.
Kellee Wynne: Mm-hmm.
Jayne Emerson: You know, and like, and it's so interesting to sort of look at like, I'm a full profile, which means that I, I kind of should run [00:34:00] my business through networking, through my communities, not necessarily throwing things the net really wide.
I mean, I just did that with Facebook ads and it kind of, I, I wanted to do it. I wanted to try it, but you know, I had a lot of people going, I don't understand this. What are you doing? You know, 'cause you're not actually teaching. And it's kind of more of a mindset.
Kellee Wynne: If you're gonna talk about like, how we build our business.
I've been really thinking about that a lot too. Like how we use social media or Facebook ads or some of the traditional ways, like everybody talks about now, I'm not opposed to using it, but I have noticed it doesn't bring me the people that I really, truly want to connect with. And I don't know how to do that by paying to get in front of their face.
Jayne Emerson: I think it probably does. I mean, but it, it does to a certain extent, but it brings you everyone,
Kellee Wynne: right?
Jayne Emerson: And I'm treating everything with love and kind of going, okay, listen, if this isn't for you, that's fine. Right. You know, and give you a refund. But I guess it's [00:35:00] also about messaging, which we learn a lot about with you, you know, really, really knowing yourself, really getting to like your core and, and believing in it and going, it's not this, it is this.
And I kind of thought, oh gosh, it's so niche. You know what, what I do. But, but that's the beauty of it. Another brave thing that I did, I think was telling my agent that I didn't wanna sell designs anymore. I think when you're doing something for a really long time and it kind of defines you, it's hard to leave that.
It is. But I, I decided that, well, it was, somebody said to me. What somebody's looking over my shoulder when I had them all up on the computer screen, they were like, what? What is that? That's magic. That work is the magic. And I was like, I need to share this. And so I started, I had started sharing that work as you sort of said on my Instagram, but now I can share everything.
My brain couldn't [00:36:00] capacity going what secret, what's not? You know? And I just wanted, wanted to share it. And then, um, I really love toast. Um, it's a UK show. I think you have them in the US now. Toast the label clothing, label Toast. Hmm, toast
Kellee Wynne: probably, but I'm not that into fashion.
Jayne Emerson: Well, yeah. But um, anyways, so I, I have my work on display in toast, which was amazing how exciting there.
And, and also this year I did, I did Gardener's World, you know, so that cross pollination thing. Wow. It's so cool. Kelly, I've gotta tell you about. So cross pollination madness, right. So, um, a friend of mine was working with a garden designer. They were doing this garden in gardeners world. It's like a show garden, and he makes these beautiful kind of chard, large hus.
And he was, and basically, so they were collaborating and then I realized that I knew the [00:37:00] garden designer from another garden that I'd been involved with a few years ago. We started talking, I sent her a gel printed ua. I was like, I really love this. I think it kind of looks like paving. I think subconsciously I got inspired from country house.
I don't think I do any direct things where I'm inspired. But she went, oh my goodness. And she just started sketching. And the whole garden layout was inspired by this gel printed improv patchwork that I sent her. Oh
Kellee Wynne: wow.
Jayne Emerson: It was like, oh my God. It's on my journal, on my, um, on Jane emerson.co uk. You can go and have a look at it, but it's kind of, he walked into it, it was like walking into this live kind of patchwork.
So they'd done all the paving and the pond was like a track, this improv triangle with steps going down. It was beautiful. And then I, I was the artist in residence in this cabin, and [00:38:00] it was just, it was just so cool. It was, it was really amazing to have my work that influenced this garden and that cross pollination just felt so right.
I wasn't even in a textile show. I in a gardening show.
Kellee Wynne: That's so amazing. And that's exactly where the no rules, like what doesn't, what do you think doesn't belong together that actually could be put together?
Jayne Emerson: And it's that this thing, again, it's like, you know, I love. I love going to stately homes in the UK and walking around gardens and it all kind of brings it together.
That's your life. Yeah, and I know what I was gonna say, Kelly. I was gonna say, when you are brave and you know what you love in your textiles and you or, or in your art and you start creating it and you have the kind of, you just do it no matter. You know? Because, because these are the things that you love.
Kellee Wynne: Right?
Jayne Emerson: Then I think you get braver in light because you understand yourself.
Kellee Wynne: Mm-hmm. So [00:39:00] that brings us to the art practice that we aren't making enough time for and how are we going to do that? I've been having this conversation with the people in Build It Remarkable. You know, the league has kind of shifted into a little bit more open community with more people in it, but not a lot.
You know, we're talking, we're talking a few dozen instead of thousands.
Jayne Emerson: You know, it makes it really beautiful. But I tell you, I think what it is is, is my, I've got a friend as well who's quite, um, he's, he's a bit of a mystic and he was like, Jane, when you're creating art, that's when the downloads happen.
Yes. Happen. When you are kind of in that, I call it a bit wombling as well, when you're just kind of wombling around and making stuff and things just downer weirdly, that kind of stuff happens as well when you're cleaning the house, when you're doing anything where you are not proactively thinking. So if you're just making art, and that's where it's kind of important [00:40:00] also to have some techniques that you know, well, I remember when I first started teaching this idea of fabric, recipes and play, and it really worked for people that kind of just knew how to use the sew machine or knew how to paint, but then they were just letting it flow.
Really playing with it, and that is so good for you. And so that kind of, if you see it more as a meditative practice than a going free art,
Kellee Wynne: that is the part that you're tapping into. That really speaks to me because I have had those moments where you're such, you're in a flow state and it's, to me, it's a little bit scary or shocking at that moment where you're like so tapped in and you can feel it like electricity through your whole body.
That there are times where I'm like, I need to step back because that was so intense. And I wonder sometimes if I don't [00:41:00] allow myself to be in that flow state because not, I mean, just because it's intense. And I
Jayne Emerson: wonder if it's
Kellee Wynne: a worthiness thing. I wonder if it's a self-confidence thing. I wonder if it's just a comfort level, if it's like a lot of mindset.
And I think that's what stops a lot of us from making art, especially when we think it's gotta be Instagram worthy or sellable or whatever. Marketable. But we forget that the best comes out of us when we don't know what we're doing that and we just tap in.
Jayne Emerson: The problem is, Kelly, the reason why I wouldn't sometimes do that is 'cause I would forget to cook these kids' teeth.
They're like, uh, mom, are we having tea? I would drop all the balls. That's what I love about gel plate printing.
Kellee Wynne: Yes.
Jayne Emerson: Was that was the thing actually. Because you could produce so much stuff in half an hour and, and you can't control it. You're like, you don't really know what's gonna happen next. So you're going from that to that to that.[00:42:00]
And you've produced a load of stuff and the possibility is one of them will be sort of Instagram.
Kellee Wynne: Maybe
Jayne Emerson: not, not that we're doing it for that, but you know,
Kellee Wynne: but one, one ideal leads to the next and it just like, it's like a wormhole of possibility. And that's, honestly, that's the most exciting time when we're making art.
When like we focus in on just a couple things and then all of a sudden it just opens up into this whole world. We didn't even know.
Jayne Emerson: But also, there was a thing, and this is a bit of a cross pollination thing, when I, when I saw fodder school, I was like, oh, in collage they create fodder. Well, this is like fabric fodder, right?
Yeah. But you're not creating an piece. You are just playing. And these don't have to be end stuff, but you're creating far more interesting fabrics to then do collage with or add as an insert in dress making or you know, just, or layer up or like [00:43:00] throw it on the dress or, you know,
Kellee Wynne: if I'm gonna be honest though, anyone goes and looks at your work.
Those little experimentations end up being masterpieces in and of themselves.
Jayne Emerson: But I tell you the journey, the journey is often long.
Kellee Wynne: Yes.
Jayne Emerson: You know, kind of, I, I have, um, I've mentioned it on a podcast before. I said I had a suitcase of wrongness. I don't throw stuff out. You know, I might do a lacy water soluble kind of thing on the sewing machine and go, the color's terrible on that.
No, I don't like it. It's so boring, you know? And I actually have one up there where I was like, yeah, it's a bit boring. So what did I do? Later on I kept it and I was like, that's still boring. It's still boring. Oh. And then I discovered the gel plate, and then I put it on the gel plate
Kellee Wynne: and then it changes everything.
Jayne Emerson: And then it made this amazing print, and then I put it back on the print and then I framed it. So everything will become something. And it's rare that something gets so, like nothing's happening to it that it went in the bin, [00:44:00] kind of, you know? Whereas sometimes. Something and I'll chop it up into strips and then I'll resee it or like, you know,
Kellee Wynne: it's, I think it's total freedom when you can just trash it.
I mean, that's to me, total freedom with the art, that it's not so precious that you hold onto everything. But you are saying you don't throw it away, but that doesn't mean it's so precious. You're not gonna just tear into it later and repurpose it. Oh yeah. I think that's exciting.
Jayne Emerson: Chop it up, weave into it.
I think that's the thing. It's like when I discover a new technique, I've kind of got really interesting fabrics as bases then. So yeah, it's, it's different. It's textiles, I guess. There's not so much you can do with the painting like that. No,
Kellee Wynne: there's,
Jayne Emerson: but with textiles you can
Kellee Wynne: just have a, I mean, I think there is, but I work amongst the people that I work with or I'm associated with.
It's mixed media, so it's always pushing ourselves into the next possibility of what [00:45:00] could possibly go together. That being said, I do also work with all different kinds of artists. As you know, you're a fiber artist and, and so, but that
Jayne Emerson: was a
Kellee Wynne: bit of
Jayne Emerson: statement. I'm, I'm taking that back straight away almost.
'cause you could have paintings and then, and then I know that people stand them back or they, there's loads of things that you can do with it.
Kellee Wynne: Yeah.
Jayne Emerson: So it's saying you should hoard everything. Everything I think that I've learned from decluttering is like everything speaking to us and stuff can get really noisy,
Kellee Wynne: very
Jayne Emerson: noisy, speaking to you and it's going well, this is terrible.
You wasted absolutely. Waste of time on that. And it's like blah, blah, blah in your ear. Well get rid of it. I don't need to hear that. But most of that's not happening because it's in boxes or suitcases. Right. But definitely getting rid of, you know, getting rid of a lot of stuff has given me the space to sort of see the stuff.
I've got rid of like half my books, I'm like. I don't need all those books. I [00:46:00]
Kellee Wynne: did.
Jayne Emerson: I just books.
Kellee Wynne: I did. And then I started hoarding more again. I don't know, like, I can't,
Jayne Emerson: sometimes I have to buy them again. Kelly. I'm like, oh God, where's that? Why
Kellee Wynne: did
Jayne Emerson: I
Kellee Wynne: get ruined over?
Jayne Emerson: Somebody's enjoying it. Someone
Kellee Wynne: five. Yeah.
I mean, I hear you on that. Um, how, okay, so we're talking about maybe some struggles of making art, but how do you stay connected with yourself, with your purpose, with this thing that lights you up? It's interesting. I, I,
Jayne Emerson: I did a show earlier this year and I had to make some art for it, and I so immediately kind of went wrong again.
I was just like, oh, what's it gonna look like? What's the no stop? You know? Um, what lights me up? I think it's the same as you, you know, like seeing other people lit up by their, you know, seeing sparks ignite in other people, seeing sparks. Go across the screen like, you know, we are doing a book theme at the minute.
I kind of, I really instinctually put out the [00:47:00] projects or not projects, the prompts that we do for no rules. I never plan it. I've never got a spreadsheet. I never know what I'm doing in the year. I'm kind of, I'm just going on instinct and like seeing the pointers and then, you know, quite a few people will mention something and I'll be like, it.
I think it's a trust is most trusting in yourself and going, it'll come. And then these books happened and then somebody came up with this idea or somebody shared an idea from Instagram of making books from envelopes. And then we'll have co-create where we are kind of, and the sparks are just going across the screen.
So like, then somebody put loads of dried flowers in envelopes and like stuck them down so that it was, it was Lynn Holland in the group. She'd like done this beautiful thing. She showed it on screen. Then somebody else in the group went, what happens if I wax them and di dip them in ink? And then she went back.
Oh, yeah. You know, and it just, we were just doing this thing is [00:48:00] following the joy, I guess.
Kellee Wynne: Um, it's so exciting too, because it is that spark in community, in collaboration.
Jayne Emerson: Yes.
Kellee Wynne: You know that that's where the real, real magic happens.
Jayne Emerson: Get ping just letting ideas flow between us that feels like the most beautiful human thing to do,
Kellee Wynne: you know?
Is, is it, is there a freedom in your membership where no one really feels like they own an idea?
Jayne Emerson: Yeah. I think we just ping them around. It's like they're throwing them around.
Kellee Wynne: I think that's,
Jayne Emerson: and everyone, everyone's so different that they'll do it their own way.
Kellee Wynne: Right. I think that's the generous way to be an artist and to be in community.
It is, it's what I've always believed, but I don't always see it. I feel like sometimes there's artists that are like, this is mine. I own it. I did it. No one else can do it. Which is [00:49:00] impossible because there's really technically nothing new under the sun. We just find ways to make an iteration of it. But when you create a, a community, and I'm speaking also to, to the other art instructors, you know, because there's a, that's my, generally the people that I work with is once that ideas out there, you release it, right?
It's not owned anymore. It's a collective energy amongst us, and that's when it gets really exciting.
Jayne Emerson: But I also think there is a thing in my membership that the people that come into the membership generally have a million ideas,
Kellee Wynne: which is great.
Jayne Emerson: So, so anyway, even if they're doing an idea that maybe well, you know, comes from that idea, they've moved on and they're doing something else right?
Because of that.
Kellee Wynne: That's exactly it. Exactly. Trying to pin it down, like just, I'm just like, just let it go and take it wherever wildness that it needs to go. Right.
Jayne Emerson: Because I often laugh 'cause I'll, I'll sometimes recall [00:50:00] videos about how I do it in my work. No, nope. They, they just ignore. Right.
Kellee Wynne: Well, that's, but the true teacher's dream, I think the true teacher's dream, except for when they keep, the only time that I, I feel like just listen to me is when somebody's struggling.
Right. They're struggling. If, if my students, my coaching clients are still struggling and feeling disappointed in the results, then it's like, let's go back to a little bit of a framework. But other than that, the true joy is to see someone take off and take it and make it their own, whether it's in business or it's in art.
Or it's just in how you live your life. Like that's my dream is that people find their own path.
Jayne Emerson: I don't think it's me anymore at all. I'm just the facilitator for the people that we've brought together and I think happen in these groups. You know,
Kellee Wynne: that does happen.
Jayne Emerson: Everyone's teaching each other and inspiring each other, and it's just this [00:51:00] beautiful kind of dance of the people that we brought together.
Kellee Wynne: Yeah. And, and that's, I mean, again, it, it's given me life. So even in my lowest points over the last couple years, the thing that continues to bring me joy is coming into this collective of brilliant women who are very soulful and very caring and very much mindful of how they wanna put things out into this world and build a business in a way that's for the benefit of all.
And it's like, so life affirming, it's so reassuring. And like you said. Like when we, if we go back to when we were talking about ads, you may throw a wide net, but the ones that stick are the ones that are meant to be there. As long as, like you said, your message is on point. And I've been working on that message more and more of letting go of all the things that the, the gurus taught and start learning what I've, I [00:52:00] actually teach from what I've learned from my students.
Now, like you, like you saying, but I know I can get more people in my membership if I do an open, close, um, pattern. And you did. And then you came to me and you said, I don't really love it because people bounce too quickly when you do it that way. And I'd rather have people come because they're committed to be here.
And I'm like, oh, okay. There's another way for other reasons. It's not growth at all cost. And so I learned these things from the people I work with. And it, it lights my soul up.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah.
Kellee Wynne: So, yes, you taught me as well, Jane. That's so bad.
Jayne Emerson: I had an idea and it's gone. It was like gonna say something and it's like, nevermind.
Um, but yeah. Yeah, I think, yeah, it just has to be the right people. And that was that, that, and, and they do just find me sort [00:53:00] Oh, I know what I was gonna say. So in all of this, what I have worked out is that possibly what I need to do is sort of almost spell out what the foundations are and what it, what my philosophy is.
Very simply. Because this has all kind of grown and it's kind of, and rather like our conversation today, it's kind of, you know, it's, it's bringing ideas from the other all the time. But what is it, what is it that I'm, my basic philosophy. So I think that's what I'm gonna do next. I'm just gonna do a kind of, almost like.
Say, say, okay, this is what I thought about this today. Do you remember at one point you were gonna come to the UK? And I was like, come to the studio. So, and
Kellee Wynne: someday I will and I will be there in that studio.
Jayne Emerson: Imagine the studio and I have an hour to show you round and show you all the textile techniques that I use.
That is what I'm gonna do next. I'm gonna make a sort of studio [00:54:00] tour that very simply shows who I am and what I do and the techniques that I use so that people can sort of understand that. And then from there they can springboard into where they wanna go or know that maybe that's the membership is where they want to come into,
Kellee Wynne: right?
Jayne Emerson: Because there is so much information in there and it's difficult to know where to start, but to just simply go look, you know, if you've got a sewing machine, you can like either do strength stitches or you can, or you can go around and you can draw with it. But also. Immediately I kind of go off, but I mean, also you can, you can use this fabric that washes away with water, or you can use this fabric that you can kind of burn away to make like your textiles look really vintage and worn.
Or you can embellish things together. And I just wanna kind of show that as simply as I can if I can, because, you know, I'll go off on a thousand tangents, but that,
Kellee Wynne: but that's why I love you, [00:55:00] is because I can feel the sparks happening over and over and over again.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah. And I, there's so many, almost Kelly, that that's the reason why I teach, because I constantly have all these kind of sparks in my head, and I realize it's a, it's a gift really.
If somebody comes to me with like, I'm doing this and I'm not sure how I should put this together or this together, I can kind of help them and go, what about this? And what about this and what about this?
Kellee Wynne: Which is exactly what I do too. Okay. I see all the what you do and let's make magic with it. Yeah, right.
Because I clearly now believe there's a few things you must do when running a business. Growing your email list is one of 'em. Otherwise you're gonna have a really hard time making any money. But
Jayne Emerson: the foundation, right?
Kellee Wynne: It's the foundation. But other than that, it's like, do you have to do it like a, a course that you launched?
Does it need to be a membership? Do you have to [00:56:00] teach or can you facilitate? Can you do it this way? And why can't you put this love and this love and this passion together to make something brand new? We don't have to follow anyone else's path to create a successful business.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah,
Kellee Wynne: exactly. And that, and that has been the magic of why build It.
Remarkable. Really does mean like your own version of what remarkable is.
Jayne Emerson: I think it's kind of hard though, because like sometimes. We don't even see what the magic is in ourselves because it comes so easily to us
Kellee Wynne: when, when we have someone to hold up a mirror, it does help. Which is why I kind of have some really fun projects for 2026 because I know that that's where the missing piece is, is to really understand how understand, I don't know if we can fully understand, but to just see how the different pieces of yourself come together to make who you are and, and give you direction in where you might wanna go.[00:57:00]
Jayne Emerson: And that is our creativity. Whether we are doing it in, you know, whether we're doing it by teaching somebody about how their art practice should be or how their business should be. That's what we both love to do. But Kelly, we have to nourish ourselves. 'cause if we're outputting all the time,
Kellee Wynne: yes,
Jayne Emerson: that's, I think when you said, how can I make myself do my own work is non-negotiable.
It
Kellee Wynne: needs to be non-negotiable. It
Jayne Emerson: has to happen because that's what nourishes us.
Kellee Wynne: I, I love this was was my aha moment. 'cause yesterday I was doing kind of a visioning and intention setting with my, with my cohort. And we were talking about it in the end, I'm like, how are you going to commit to your art practice?
You know, because it is the number one complaint. Most most artists, business owners I hear is that they are not making enough time for their own creativity. And [00:58:00] one woman said, one of my members said, I will not let more than two days go by without making art. Just kinda like when you're like, I need to move my body.
I won't let more than two days pass without going to the gym. And I'm like, oh, that's a really easy path to like, just remind myself if more than two days have passed, then I need to be making something and I need to make it easy.
Jayne Emerson: So one member. Um, that was in their roles for a bit. I, I loved her. She was absolutely brilliant, Anna.
And she used to do so talking about exercise, she would do warmup exercises. So she would have a sewing machine with something, you know, some fabric in it. So when she wanted to go and create, she would just go and sit there and stitch a few lines.
Kellee Wynne: Oh
Jayne Emerson: wow. You going, like, once you start walking, once you start that, then you're in it.
Yeah. And so it's finding easy ways to go [00:59:00] to get in to your practice or just going, I'm just gonna do 10 minutes. 'cause once you're doing 10 minutes, you're doing an hour.
Kellee Wynne: Right. Well, and it's not that we don't wanna make art, it's just that our mind competes with priorities. Right. Well, if I, if I do this on the website, that I'll more likely get more people's attention on such and such and such, and like, I have this deadline and I need to do this.
What's important and what's urgent are two different things. And if we don't put time on, the important urgent will take over and we will never have time for the thing. That is why we were here in the first place, which is creating,
Jayne Emerson: but also like probably we think I've gotta go in there and I've gotta make this thing from start to finish.
Kellee Wynne: Right?
Jayne Emerson: What happens if you go in and you look at all the bits of textile body, don't you, you know, or all the, all paintings and you just kind of like, like a flat lay, just put them together. What does it look like if like your mini paintings got put together with some [01:00:00] objects or you were just, just playing like that?
Creativity.
Kellee Wynne: Okay, so I wanna know what you're dreaming about right now.
Jayne Emerson: I think just blending everything to what we've been talking about, blending it all together so I have time for my art practice. Well, the first thing that I've been trying to do is, is get out of sample mode. So I was always making these samples to a specific size, so just going up a bit bigger, so like a three, you know, just playing.
And I'm really with, and playing with vintage frames. Vintage has always been a massive part of what I do. To the point I almost like forget that it's such a big part of it, you know, and looking at vintage frames and furniture, I, I made a huge investment, but it's amazing. I bought these, um, these drawers.
They're so deep. I mean, I, I went to the antique center and I took two of my boxes, you know, because all my kind of samples are in boxes. I don't ever put [01:01:00] them in sketchbooks. I like them to be movable.
Kellee Wynne: Mm-hmm.
Jayne Emerson: Like I'm saying, you know, I wanna kind of like see what they look like layered up or side by side or like, oh
Kellee Wynne: yeah,
Jayne Emerson: whatever.
So I've done 45 prompts in the membership now over the last. Five years. Yeah. And they were all in these boxes that were kind of falling apart a bit and taped up and dah dah. And I just saw those shelves, like, they're like six foot wooden from steelworks in Birmingham, and we'll put a
Kellee Wynne: picture on it. Yeah.
On the site
Jayne Emerson: they told. And so, um, uh, I was just like, I have to have, they're very expensive, but it's like they're clothed in the right thing now. Right. You know, it's amazing how you feel when you're wearing something that, that's lovely. As opposed to sweatpants. You know, they are not in their sweatpants anymore.
Kellee Wynne: They're not in their sweatpants anymore. I love it. Yeah. I am. I I have a hard time getting out of the [01:02:00] sweatpants myself. Yeah. But
Jayne Emerson: something,
Kellee Wynne: I get it, I get it. Um, still, you know what I mean? Your dreaming vintage still. Yes. What else? And your dreaming
Jayne Emerson: podcast. Um, yeah, I would, I would really, I mean, I think where no rules is going is where people are making incredible art.
I don't even wanna call it textile art. I just want it to be art. The, um, Anna, who I was saying about that did her, um, her business card, she just put artist, not textile artist.
Kellee Wynne: Yes.
Jayne Emerson: Artist, Anna Stanley artist. And so I just want that, and I, and I want to have a show with all the incredible work.
Kellee Wynne: Oh yeah.
Jayne Emerson: And I want this kind of textile work to just be next to paintings and sculptures and that.
And I, and I'm excited. And I
Kellee Wynne: think without a doubt, they deserve to be there. They're, they're [01:03:00] just incredible. Like, I can get lost in how you put textiles together. It's exciting. It sparks ideas. That cross pollination. It spurs ideas for me as well.
Jayne Emerson: Had a friend over and she's a stylist and she was like, I just, I wanna see these interiors.
I haven't really seen something like this. You know? So just yeah. Bringing, making them art now.
Kellee Wynne: Oh my goodness. I have to say, I am surprised that you finally let go of, of selling your samples. I was
Jayne Emerson: many mentors not to do that, but it felt like this is what I'm doing now. Now I'm kind of come out of the box and I'm, I'm sharing it and I always have that and I can say, I did this and, you know, and I
Kellee Wynne: mean, that is a pretty big deal.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah. If anything,
Kellee Wynne: you know, it's a pretty big deal.
Jayne Emerson: It's like, it's a slowness Kelly. It's like I knew probably for about four years, that's what I should do.
Kellee Wynne: I know. It's, what were you gonna say? [01:04:00] Um,
Jayne Emerson: you forgot
Kellee Wynne: I let go of Color Crush Creative. Yes. That was the same thing. I was holding it like for you, four years of saying I should just keep this, I made it.
And there's, there's a phrase called lost or sunk cost fallacy where we think because we put all this work into something, we need to keep it going and keep it alive. But it's in the letting go that the new thing can happen, that the new flourishes and like when there's a chapter that's meant to end.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah.
Kellee Wynne: And I held on so tight and it was a big decision to finally say
Jayne Emerson: it's business decluttering.
Kellee Wynne: It is business decluttering. And
Jayne Emerson: basically I wonder whether your art practice becomes like you just do it just for you.
Kellee Wynne: You're
Jayne Emerson: so busy, you know, doing. And in a way I'm kind of doing the same.
Kellee Wynne: I kind of took the busyness outta my life though, Jane.
I don't have busy anymore. Like, I mean, there's always a to-do list, but. [01:05:00] I'm just not that person that I was two years ago.
Jayne Emerson: A lot of things in my life, I mean, I just wanna spend time with the ti people that I really wanna spend time with. Mm-hmm. And I want that to be space.
Kellee Wynne: Yeah. There needs to be space, there needs to be hard work at times too, but it just cannot be the way it was before.
And so, you're right. The, the thing I'm most excited about is just exploring what it means to me now and maybe sharing that process. You know, not teaching, but just exposing what we all go through. Well, furnishing our own
Jayne Emerson: homes so they look beautiful. Makes we are, we wanna put wolves,
Kellee Wynne: right? Yeah. Making the space the way.
Yeah.
Jayne Emerson: That's
Kellee Wynne: part of the dreaming that and travel. Yes. I will always put that on my dream list.
Jayne Emerson: Oh my goodness, Kelly, I tell you, I have done that. I went to Ireland, not very far, but I had to get a pass. I had not had a [01:06:00] passport for 20 years. Oh no. Yeah, maybe it was a bit less than that, but I hadn't been out of the country for 20 years because single parenting and everything.
Kellee Wynne: Wow.
Jayne Emerson: And I went on the island to speak at the Patchwork conference. It was amazing.
Kellee Wynne: I went on a
Jayne Emerson: plane, well, I did go on a plane to I to Scotland, obviously, to see Susan. But yeah, I actually got myself a passport. So now, now
Kellee Wynne: you're ready.
Jayne Emerson: I think I will try and teach. I'd like to teach,
Kellee Wynne: I'd love to do T retreat.
I think that's my biggest hope is to get back to being able to be in person. Physical proximity is a lot closer, which is scary for me because I've become an incredible introvert. But when you're in that moment with true, gorgeous creative souls, it's like, so life affirming when everything else feels.
Like shit out there. I know that it's in this connection between each other. It's in this community, it's in what we build amongst each [01:07:00] other. That that's the whole reason why
Jayne Emerson: it's really beautiful. And when we can do that and we can forget everything that's happening in the world and be together and do that.
I did it in September with, um, with With No Rules. We had a No Rules retreat. It was amazing. Oh,
Kellee Wynne: wonderful.
Jayne Emerson: And it, I think people said it just translated so beautifully from screen. It was, it was just a seamless transition from screen hug to just pinging ideas around in person. It was how exciting again.
And I'm gonna do another one in March and it just sold out in 24 hours, which is
Kellee Wynne: well. Um, so then you're telling me I should be joining. No Rules. It sounds like the people that I would love to be with too,
Jayne Emerson: and such an amazing group. You know? Yeah. It was just, yeah, it's just kind of, oh, people to watch those ideas just happen.
They'd just be like looking [01:08:00] over and going, oh, right, we're doing this or come round and we'll just do this technique. And then they'd just go off and do that technique differently, you know? Like I have my pleading machine with me and Amy who did follow the F. She was like, but what happens if we put paper through it?
I was like, I don't know, I've never done it. She's like, let's do it. Will it break in? I dunno. Putting paper through the pleater.
Kellee Wynne: That's how it felt. When I, when I go to Colleen at Tara's workshops, which people will hear me talk about it a lot because I think that was the biggest transformation in 2025, other than my online community, is it was just a playhouse of ideas of like, okay, if you did this, but what if you did this?
But what if you did that? Yeah. And she does a lot of like cyanotype and um. Transfers and even clothing alterations and stuff. And it's just like, it just opens up a whole world of possibility. But it was also, again, it comes back to the people that you're with. Right. [01:09:00]
Jayne Emerson: It's funny because I was talking about this last night to somebody and um, I was talking, I dunno how we got onto this.
'cause I, I think my daughter said, oh, you know, her boyfriend was gonna come around and I said, they'll probably spray paint it. And he basically just spray. He, she had an Aidas top on. She'll come back from going up and he's like, spray painted it orange, like the white stripe. You know, they just box. It's so cool.
I, I, I thought your children were babies. They're 16 and 14 now.
Kellee Wynne: That's amazing.
Jayne Emerson: But I love that they're growing up in a household where it's okay to like spray paint your jacket. I mean, you know, obviously you should wear a mask and it should be safe and everything that probably didn't. Right. But
Kellee Wynne: they're just thinking out of the books.
Jayne Emerson: And I,
Kellee Wynne: I love that. That's what I always hope I for, I think, I think probably both of us [01:10:00] have that gift that people have given us permission to be our creative selves and, and so I know that's something that I hope to just keep passing on to others. I don't have kids who wanna make art, but they're creative in other ways.
You know, I didn't have girls, I had all boys, but you know, they'll find their own in their own time and it's good.
Jayne Emerson: I don't think she's gonna go and study art, but maybe, maybe they have that permission to do things a little bit differently 'cause they see that
Kellee Wynne: happening.
Jayne Emerson: That's
Kellee Wynne: the whole goal. Maybe it's more than no rules.
Textile society, maybe It's no rules society.
Jayne Emerson: Yeah. Live society.
Kellee Wynne: Yeah. Of them except kind to each other. I think that's the most important rule. Yeah. Be kind to each other other than that like, go bonkers, be weird. That's my goal. Let's be weird's that,
Jayne Emerson: you know, it's that kind of, yeah. I think, you know, it's, [01:11:00] we've sort of said that in no rules, there's like no agenda.
It's just there's no, everyone's accepted for who they are and encouraged to be who they are. Somebody said to me the other day, you are, it's an, an enabling society. That's what it is. Yes. It's kind of, it enables us to just do it and try it
Kellee Wynne: and to be brave. Alright. One last question, which I've asked you ages ago, but this isn't always changing answer, I'm sure.
What is your big audacious dream? To live A peaceful, joyful, creative life. That is exactly what we want, right?
Jayne Emerson: Don't you think I love, I'm, so, I often catch myself and I go, look at me. I get to do this, I get to do this. Even though I'm like, oh, it's mostly admin. I'm doing the thing that I love. And
Kellee Wynne: it's, you're, you're living your big audacious dream.
Jayne Emerson: Thank you. [01:12:00] And you've absolutely helped me to do that. Um, your whole thing is empowering people to build beautiful businesses, doing what they love, and then those people go off and because they're filled with joy and they're happy, they're rippling that out to the people around them. And that is your powerful movement that you're, you're doing as a business.
I think that empowering this is, is really important and, and the fact that when. The empowerment also comes from the people that are within your courses because you are suddenly surrounded by people that wanna do the same thing as you in the same kind of field. You know, we're, we're all in that creative industry.
Mm-hmm. And specifically for me and Susan, almost being single moms, you know, doing this, enabling us to be with our kids, but also create an incredible kind of [01:13:00] career that's profitable. So empowering.
Kellee Wynne: Honestly, it's been so, it's why I keep doing what I do is because I see women be able to change their own lives, so,
Jayne Emerson: and in turn inspire others to change their life.
So
Kellee Wynne: and so. It goes on. That's the whole ripple effect that I hope for.